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Looks like this thread could run and run.
Daylight, maybe a heading of its own (like Titanics) – Noted non-triers, or eyecatchers??
Aidan – yeah I hate the multiple handicap entries of Pipe.
Quite apart from the tricks Pipe plays, I always find myself running my finger down the list and saying to myself – oh dear, poor old Huet’s on the 7th string again.
I was just thinking aloud when I started this off. Having read the thread through I think the mass entries in handicaps actually annoy me more than the AOB/Godolphin angle (though I do agree with Rob’s sentiments).
Sorry, but I can’t agree with the notion that Nicholls’ horses were all trying their hearts out. He must have run half his string at Doncaster, perhaps his gallops were waterlogged…
OK, so my proposed solution may be far too simplistic but surely there are things here that are not what racing should be about – pacemakers; messing about with the handicap; using the course as a gallops; top stables farming top races; and supposedly competitive fields made up of mass entries from one stable.
sal, that was a great posting.
Amazingly after 16 pages you’re (I think) the first person to really suggest that the pulling up in front of the grandstands was quite specifically ‘Plan B’.
Kathy (and Esc) are making a case out for it being Plan A, and the enraged masses are making it out to never have crossed anyone’s minds.
Your’s makes much more sense.
My feelings about it, were it true are:
a) if it were Pipe etc, we’d all have said that cynically from the start.
b) who knows who could have been trying to profit from such a back-up plan, from half associates etc.
Is this what we’re really getting at ?
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I’ve dragged this out the basement again, as it relates to the other thread going on about Guest/Mason.
<br>He may be a deleted member, but this was a great posting!
And Mini Sensation ran a great race on Saturday (another Jonjo O’Neill pulled up last time horse.)
Yeah sorry Ali – I was going to say Brits – but that wouldn’t have worked would it!!
I think I had my say somewhere on page 1 or 2, and have just been enjoying the ride since.
I think they got caught up in the romance of it all, and hope triumphed over realism. I don’t think there was anything untoward. No silly bets etc.
I do think in their heart of hearts they all knew Istabraq couldn’t win. I think in his own way AOB tried to tell us that.
Frankly virtually all trainers, owners and jockeys are so used to telling half-truths and giving non-statements that I honestly believe they have no idea that each of their bland utterances treats us punters with complete contempt. So I treat them with contempt back.
Hey, and now I own a fetlock of the Racing Forum’s horse, don’t come looking to me for the inside story!
Good stuff Kathy!
And Ali/Colin – cut through the crap and no mistake.
The Will Buckley article in the Observer asked the question what would have happened if Martin Pipe had been the trainer of Istabraq, McCoy on top (and there’s no equivalent to JP, but let’s say Richard Branson was the owner).
He thought there’d be a right stink. After all, look at the stink over Magnus and Lady Cricket.
There seems to be a cultural difference here (excuse stereotypical generalisations). Istabraq represented Ireland, as did the trainer, jockey and owner. All those who dared suggest the horse had no chance in the build up to Cheltenham (English sceptics mainly) were given short shrift by the faithful (Irish romantics mainly).
And so it is now. The English cynics are airing their views (plenty patently ridiculous). And the Irish are defending what exactly?
A great horse. A great trainer. A great jockey. A colourful gambler. Ireland maybe. Good on you. Good on you that you have such belief in your heroes.
I’m with Will Buckley – us English lost such faith years ago – if it had been a Pipe horse there’d be questions in Parliament.
That’s true,
but sidders was patently not-off on the day, and even Esc looked to be holding something back for Aintree.
If I was a bookie and had balls that’s exactly what I would have done flagship.
So, he’s either a top bookie (doubtful judging by his dressing gown Saturday morning), or he’d been tipped the wink by beard’s best mate.
Or he’s as stupid as me, and just got lucky.
I much prefer watching jumps to flat. Each jumps race is a little story unfolding. Each flat race is over by the time I’ve worked out which runner’s mine.
On the other hand Chepstow in December can be miserable beyond belief, Sandown at a summer mid-week meeting is a stolen moment of bliss; Bath’s evening meetings, something special. <br> <br>Jumps racing gets a bit ragged during January and February with abandonments, desperate ground and horses being prepped for Cheltenham.
Flat racing gets weighed down by the sheer amount of racing in high summer, when I get to the stage where I just can’t face wading through another moderate day’s card.
The one you’ve backed to big money falls at the first over the jumps. The one you’ve backed to big money gets blocked on the rails on the flat.
On balance, I think I prefer football…
Kathy,
some support for you today from Will Buckley in the Observer – asks almost exactly the same question.
I think dario has a point.
Impressive as the first two were, JDC and Telemoss did cut each other’s throats – so the other two pulling so far clear is a bit misleading.
Mad I may be, but I’d give them both a squeak under a more restrained ride. Or if either got an unopposed lead.
Kathy,
I tend to think racing stinks to high heaven most of the time.
In this case, though, I think it was just the triumph of hope over reality, on the part of everyone – trainer, owner, jockey, punters, an entire nation.
Hope of course is the last and cruellest of all Pandora’s evils.<br>
Remittance Man – that’s really useful work – nice one.
I do look to see if Ladbrokes are short on a horse – probably won’t take much notice now.
re Champion Hurdle – personally I’m keen to find a big outsider each way.
Actually, I don’t think the English are any different on the whole.
If you go the the Arc it’s full of English backing no-hope English horses, for the fun, because of home hype, and special cheer when they win.
I remember watching the Breeders Cup one year at Newbury racecourse. Everyone had backed Barathea despite it being a 9/1 dodgepot and there was an extra special ‘put one over on the Yanks’ celebration afterwards.
Nick Mordin has done study after study showing how we let foreign horses go off at ‘value’ odds out of blind prejudice. We may not do that with the French any more, having had our fingers burnt, but we still do it with the German horses.
And if I’m honest I tend to oppose the Irish horses at Cheltenham for no other reason than nationality.
I’ve dragged this one up from the basement – James321 alerted us all to Jonjo’s horses that pull up.
Seems like the word got out today with Celtic Pride!
Thanks James, it meant I was able to excuse its first run when I was pricing up the race, and I ended up backing two in the race Celtic Pride and Historic. Even snaffled some of the 12s.
Nice one.
Esc,
what price makes a horse a ‘winner’?
Odds-on is the only time they’re more likely to win than lose ? And I hardly ever price a horse up at odds on – so, they’re all losers in my book.<br>
