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Baracouda

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  • #98847
    remittance man
    Member
    • Total Posts 63

    You know the season has really started when Boss Doyle wins at Wetherby on Charlie Hall day.

    But you’ll know it’s time to give up the game if Boss Doyle wins at Cheltenham on Gold Cup day.

    (Edited by remittance man at 10:59 am on Feb. 26, 2002)

    #98848
    Scottish Jamie
    Participant
    • Total Posts 123

    Esc, I read your swift rundown of the various pros and cons to the main contenders for this race and largely agree with you. However your reason for rejecting Liss is a bit fragile. The fact she hasn’t tried the trip is not necessarily a disadvantage. It means she is unexposed and may well improve for the trip. She is just a little off the best at 2m and 2m4f but she shapes like she’ll appreciate the trip and looks to have been trained for the race. I remeber both Dorans Pride and Bacchanal winning this having spent the early part of their career  running shorter trips and only stepped up in trip for the Stayers Hurdle. Mysilv was 2nd in it beaten a nk having her first race beyond 2m. I think Baracouda will be too much for the mare but she’s a horse to save on because we don’t know how good she is yet (at this trip) and she’s very likely to produce a lifetime best in the race now she gets to tackle 3m and has been laid out for it. The rest of them are exposed, Bannow Bay is good, JDC can be good but they are at the mercy of Baracouda if he handles the track. Liss is the only potential fly in the ointment. Do the exacta !

    #98849
    Steve M
    Member
    • Total Posts 99

    I agree Aidan.

    By the way I wouldn’t get too excited about Deano’s Beeno. They are actually trying to sell part (or parts) of him as I reported on the other forum, according to the Classifieds in the Post.

    This is obviously not a good sign, it never is. I would question the likelihood of him even getting to post.<br>

    #98850
    Aidan
    Member
    • Total Posts 1198

    Your problem with Liss A Paoraight is pretty weak Escorial considering she has always looked a stayer.Also untried over the trip?You dont rule out Shooting Light over the Gold Cup trip first time do you?<br>                     I have NO doubt Baracouda is a better horse than we saw on Thursday(incidently he will not win the Stayers if he reproduces Thursdays win) but the fact is he didnt impress as he has done before in previous races.Yes he might well go on and win the Stayers and he is a deserving favourite(not odds on though) but Thurday showed he is beatable.I am still worried about him handling a track like Cheltenham.

    #98851
    Daniel McD
    Member
    • Total Posts 34

    The Boss Doyle factor is significant as he wouldn’t get near Bannow Bay or Liss A Paoraigh yet BD has the measure of most of the English horses, .

    The race is down to Baracouda, Bannow Bay, Liss A Paoraigh and possibly Jair Du Cochet

    Some of the reasons for dismissing Bannow Bay and Liss are plain daft ! The fact is, BB has favourable form with Limestone lad who is a top class yardstick,

    Baracouda struggled the other day and is not unbeatable. I always wonder why, if Baracouda was so good, did the previous owners sell him. I mean, it’s all gone wrong with First Gold hasn’t it ?

    Bannow Bay can win on all surfaces, and is certainly not exposed. Said it before, said it again, this horse is discounted because he never ran in England before. Boss Doyle is considered because he has. What a weak way to decide things.

    Baracouda has not come up against anything this season in the class of Limestone Lad, a horse that Bannow Bay has beaten.

    Evens Baracouda, 5/1 Bannow Bay ??

    Give me the 5/1 Bannow Bay anytime …

    #98852
    robgomm
    Member
    • Total Posts 224

    Why will a reproduction of Baracouda’s win at Kempton see him fail to win the Stayers’?

    I’m not agreeing or disagreeing, just interested in your reasons.

    He did idle in front but was always in control, same story at Sandown. He’s got class about him as he does enough to win against good horses.

    #98853
    Aidan
    Member
    • Total Posts 1198

    Because I dont think he did idle in front.If the horse had of cruised into the lead and then tried pulling himself up I would agree that he was idling.He has done that before but Thursday was completely different,he was DRIVEN into the lead and kept up to his work because he didnt go clear.In fact if it was’nt for his two excellent jumps at the last two he might well have got beat.<br>              Escorial connections have repeatidly given their reasoning for running her over shorter distances in Ireland.Three reasons she’s small, heavy ground and most importantly Limestone Lad. Invariably Limestone Lad will set a strong gallop in really heavy ground in all the top staying races. She is only a small mare who would prefer better ground so they never wanted to give her such punishing races over that trip. She wouldnt last long if they inflicted that upon her.

    #98854
    Steve M
    Member
    • Total Posts 99

    I hear they are thinking of switching Liss A P to the Champion rather than take on Baracouda in the Stayers, as they feel they are more likely to beat Istabraq, Ned Kelly and co.

    I would back Bannow Bay in an ordinary year, but 5/1 is not big enough for me for him to take on Baracouda, whereas evens is plenty big enough for me for Baracouda to take on the rest.

    The Boss Doyle form lines are meaningless as the Kempton race was just an excercise for Baracouda to keep on the ball. The point was not to see how far he could win by.

    I’m afraid even Bannow Bay will not prove up to it and the rest have got no chance at all.

    Hi Escorial, an interesting point of which I was aware.

    #98855
    dario
    Member
    • Total Posts 45

    of course i dont think boss doyle will win the stayers but it wouldnt be the biggest shock in the world if he ran on into 3rd

    i was just showing that yet another piece of form by baracouda was open to question and definitely not what is required to win at cheltenham

    #98856
    dario
    Member
    • Total Posts 45

    if he only produces the form of his last run he would indeed do well to finish in the 1st 3<br>

    #98857
    ron b
    Member
    • Total Posts 8

    I couldn’t believe the price either! and assumed that it was due to a huge plunge by the Irish on Bannow Bay, or Baracouda was going to run on crutches. In the event I threw caution to the wind and filled my boots.

    Doumen like many jockeys rode as though possessed by some mystical sense of  over confidence. At one point I wondered if the horse would get so detached from the action that he may loose all interest in the race. In the end the jockeys confidence was rewarded, and although  the margin was not great he comfortably held Bannow Bay up the hill. I know he didn’t want to be in front too soon, but this great stayer was asked and delivered an awful lot.

    #98858
    DJ
    Member
    • Total Posts 18

    nice price indeed !

    Timeline advised a late MAX bet on this 5 mins before the race on the basis the price was just too big.<br>£1500 @ 13/8 very nice !<br>see ch4 text page 572 and the man from the Tote moaning about how they were done just before the race!!

    #98859
    dario
    Member
    • Total Posts 45

    interesting…

    when JDC beats it takes time and telemoss 9L giving them 4lbs i get told thats not good enough form to win a stayers

    yet when baracouda/bannow bay bt the same pair 13L off levels apparently they are great horses

    #98860
    robgomm
    Member
    • Total Posts 224

    T Doumen…confident….TOO confident. The guy was showboating! He got the horse to win, although i wouldn’t have been happy with the horse being last if i was Doumen’s boss (daddy Doumen).]

    Baracouda is obvously a class horse, a very good one. It Takes Time and Telemoss are improving but neither seemed good enough to tackle Baracouda before the race, and so it proved. They were well back at the finish. Bannow Bay’s obviously a class horse too and I think Limestone Lad would have struggled against these two.

    Baracouda is a bit cheeky. I don’t know how he’ll handle fences. I’m sure he’s schooled over fences many times but i’m not sure how good he is. He certainly doesn’t appeal as a future Gold Cup winner. Time will tell.

    #98861
    tooting
    Member
    • Total Posts 379

    I think dario has a point.

    Impressive as the first two were, JDC and Telemoss did cut each other’s throats – so the other two pulling so far clear is a bit misleading.

    Mad I may be, but I’d give them both a squeak under a more restrained ride.  Or if either got an unopposed lead.

    #98862
    Smithy
    Member
    • Total Posts 720

    I hope Nicky Richards is pleased with the fourth place of Telemoss – surely he would have been better off preserving his handicap mark earlier in the year and winning the Coral Cup. Seeing as he is going to be a chaser, you would have thought they might have boxed a bit more cleverly this season, with the prospect of plenty more to come next year.

    Or is that being unfair??

    #98863
    dario
    Member
    • Total Posts 45

    nothing at all too suggest ITT and telemoss improved from their last run and the fact they both weakend at the end of this race and yet still finished where they did just adds support to my credence

    (Edited by dario at 1:31 am on Mar. 16, 2002)

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