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This is an amazing thread and looks sure to go on and on and on……………..
My post stating that JP had backed both LL and VAL.<br>lacked only one piece of info.I was aware of this B4 the race ,not after.
<br>yes an amazingly long thread it shows what a bit of idle gossip can do more amazingly it is surpirising how many can even consider this consipiricy theory as anything more than fishermans wives tales
and your post lacked another thing —- fact rather than more inane gossip
I saw Istabraq arriving at Cheltenham on RTE news.  They showed him being led out of the horsebox and taken away.  He was not wearing any sort of hood.  I might not be the best judge of a horse’s movement but he certainly was not "shaking like a leaf" and seemed to me to be moving normally.
It would be understandable if they didn’t want photographs taken as it was dark and the camera flashes could easily startle such a highly strung horse.
PR-obviously any info I get in future would not be worth posting on this forum.
Although I have only been a member for a short time,it was good while it lasted.
Good Luck to all (and that includes PR)
How’s about this for a conspiracy theory.  Kathy is a stooge for someone out to discredit  AOB/JP and therefore Ballydoyle/Coolmore.  Does the person feeding her info hope that a journalist will pick this up and try and make something of it ?  Chinese whispers, no smoke without fire, wink wink, nudge nudge. Millions could be at stake. ÂÂÂ
In fairness Kathy, your last message is celebrating a discussion involving rumours and defamation of character,
People are drawn to this thread in the same way that many people can’t take their eyes off the scene of a car crash,
It’s nothing to be proud of
Kathy – Of course people want 100% proof! We can’t just go on your information. We don’t know how reliable the source is, whether the source was making it up, whether anything you’ve been told is true.
Why should we jump on the bandwagon and believe it?
Want to know the simple way to see it – Istabraq travelled to the racecourse. He walked out of his box. He went to the racecourse stables. He was saddled. He went into the parade ring. He moved poorly down to the start. He jumped off. He didn’t jump the first well. He was pulled up lame. He went home.
That’s the way i see it. I must say that i don’t think it was wise to run him (judging on the way he went down to post) but i don’t think anything dodgy has happened.
Just heard an announcement that Istabraq has been retired from racing and that he should make a full recovery.<br>Without doubt a class horse.
To answer Kathy’s question, would as many people have come over to Cheltenham from Ireland, probably not, I estimate that the numbers may have been reduced by as many as five or six;
1. Istabraq’s lass<br>2. The fat bloke in the Istabraq jumper<br>3 & 4 Those two sad girls who called themselves the Istabraq fanclub, dressed in Green & Gold all the time and really need to get out more<br>5. That bloke who sings the Istabraq song (thank Christ)<br>6. (possibly) AOB might not have bothered.
Other than that do you really think people who had booked months in advance wouldn’t have bothered making the trip to Cheltenham just because one horse (no matter how high profile), was a non runner.<br>
(Edited by johnny boy at 5:06 pm on Mar. 21, 2002)
Just to add in my twopenceworth of fence-sitting… :biggrin:
Flag’s post (about 25 pages ago now!) pretty much summed up my feelings on this issue.
I can’t imagine Isty’s connections would have made the journey over just to pick up appearance money – and nor would they have deliberately risked the horse if they felt he was certain to break down.  However, I would have thought that the chance of making history and giving Isty once last shot at glory was a fairly strong incentive to run, even if they weren’t sure he was up to winning.
Given his interrupted preparation, it must have occured to Ballydoyle that Isty might not have been back to his old self.  Talented and professional people that they are, I’m sure a contingency plan must have been put in place, to protect the horse as much as possible.  Although I don’t think they brought him over just to pull him up in front of the stands, I imagine that, in event of him not showing his sparkle, was Plan B.
I think this thread is perfectly valid speculation and discussion.  If trainer, owner and horse were not all held (rightly) in such high regard, then the pulling up of a Champion Hurdle favourite in such circumstances would have attracted a much more negative press.
:wave:
“Istabraq was a natural from the day we first started schooling him. He always did everything we asked of him right through his career, and he never disappointed us. He has given us unbelievable moments and memories, and we will cherish these for ever.â€ÂÂ
1.Johnny the two girl fan club actually came from Scotland
2.Elderberry (Page 14) you are right in what you saw on RTE
No hood,no shaking,no nothing
3.Kathy yes flew in to Bristol then to Chelt by horsebox,the plan on Wednesday (Isty stayed at racecourse Tues night) was to travel home by ferry with Darapour but didn’t see them leave so can’t confirm for sure.
sal, that was a great posting.
Amazingly after 16 pages you’re (I think) the first person to really suggest that the pulling up in front of the grandstands was quite specifically ‘Plan B’.
Kathy (and Esc) are making a case out for it being Plan A, and the enraged masses are making it out to never have crossed anyone’s minds.
Your’s makes much more sense.
My feelings about it, were it true are:
a) if it were Pipe etc, we’d all have said that cynically from the start.
b) who knows who could have been trying to profit from such a back-up plan, from half associates etc.
Is this what we’re really getting at ?
<br>
<br>It isn’t wide of the mark at all Esc – it is spot on. I think they knew he wasn’t going to win…they hoped he would but knew he wasn’t going to.
I don’t think that means anything dodgy has happened and i don’t think pulling up in front of the stands was "plan B". Should Swan have pushed Istabraq passed the stands and then pulled him up? Or should he have pulled him up as soon as he thought that enough was enough?
I don’t think it had anything to do with fianance – i think they went there "hoping" Istabraq would win another CHurdle. The connections weren’t out for getting the money for 1st place, i think they ran to get Istabraq’s name on its own: as the one horse to win 4 CHurdles and, if he’d have won, he’d probably have been known as the all time great hurdler.
I think Swan pulled Istabraq up in front of the stands because the horse was injured, not because it was some glorious ending. You could see on TV that the horse wasn’t walking fluently.
I do not believe anything dodgy has gone on – but i do believe that Istabraq shouldn’t have run, it was obvious as he went down to the start that he wasn’t right. But i don’t think they ran him for financial gain, i just can’t see that – it doesn’t make sense. They ran him because they wanted to win, although they knew it just wasn’t going to happen.
Nothing dodgy, just a few people hoping, and you’re right on the mark – they were wrong to hope, they had to expect that Istabraq was going to win.
They obviously had a ‘Plan B’ but to suggest it was pulling him up in front of the stands is rediculous. I’m sure ‘Plan B’ was if Istabraq is not travelling well then pull him up. If he becomes injured then pull him up. To suggest they would risk the horse in order to get a standing ovation is madness. Charlie Swan said he was’nt travelling well after jumping the first, he waited until he jumped the second to see if the better ground would improved his action but it did not, so he pulled him up.
personally, i was away for a week, (thank you freetown) coming back to this site and i am saddened that this thread has amounted the greatest number of posts that i can remember on here. I think it is a poor reflection of the forumites in general.
And before ye start talking all the bullshit on every one id entitled to their opinion…. i dont mean to offend anyone but that is my opinion and im not apologizing for it.
i am disappointed that the scaremongering re istabraq were proved correct to a great extent but this thread , which i am aware that i am adding to, is a disgrace.
100,000 at 8/1 on a monday , 8/1 on tuesday. This is ridulous. Sorry , i dont think i can convey my disappointment in forumites in arguing this.
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