Forum Replies Created
- Posts
Get him in the Gold Cup!
Everything about the horse says he’ll stay the trip no problem.
Only way I’d go for a weak Ryanair would be if the going was like a bog. If it’s decent ground get him in the showpiece instead of a glorified handicap!
Outside Galopin Des Champs (who I think he’s better than). Other than a possibly rejuvenated A Plus Tard he’s not much to beat has he? If he does stay the trip he’d be way too classy for the rest in my eyes…
Mike – A Plus Tard started the ‘21 season in a two mile chase and finished runner up to Minella Indo and then we all saw what he did last season.
Sizing John after being campaigned nearly exclusively at two miles for the best part of three seasons started his first gold cup winning season at two and a half miles then had just one more run at 3 miles before Cheltenham.
I see a lot of similarities with those two gold cup winners and Shishkin.
Unless it’s very testing ground I think it would be criminal not to give it a go. Be right up there with the disappointment of not seeing Vautour take his chance in a gold cup. That horse taught us one thing…as did my favourite gold cup winner Coneygree…live in the current and don’t look too far ahead as you never know what’s around the corner. No point saying we’ll go Ryanair this year and gold cup next as next is never guaranteed. If he’s fit and well and comes out of the race well and comes on for it like both trainer and jockey were adamant he would then go for gold!
There’s one form horse to beat in Galopin Des Champs and a combination of horses with massive question marks and handicappers. I personally think he’s better than Galopin Des Champs in what they’ve both achieved…could be some match up!
Another Fifty Ball fan here!
Gets to race off the same mark in this as when finishing 2nd last year. If Soaring Glory does try to defend his crown he’s a stone worse off for that 3 length win..
Plenty of winning form this season from those in behind….Edwardstone, Buzz, Guard Your Dreams etc…
Recent form of Gary Moore another big plus…what’s not to like?
This could turn out to be one of the races of the week!
We could get Bob Olinger v Galopin Des Champs v L’homme Presse! How good would that be?
All the talk would be about the Irish pair, but like the previous poster L’homme Prese is the bet for me in this. Think he’s a terrific jumper, so quick and economical over his fences and really quick on his feet after landing…seen him just go to his left a couple of times when going right handed so Cheltenham no issue and he’s already chalked up a win there.
Pic D’Orhy is much better than what he showed for me as the Nicholls runners are clearly not right at present and not finishing their races off but what he did do is throw out a challenge to L’homme Presse’s jumping and he rose to the challenge…jumped and travelled like a very good horse.
Love Bob Olinger’s attitude and he certainly wouldn’t go down without a fight but jumpings the name of the game and I think this fella can really serve it up to Irealnds best…could see him taking a lead from GDS and asking that horse plenty of questions…my first decent bet I’ve had for this years festival…
Teletext! How frustrating was looking at racecards? There was about 40 pages and the card you wanted to look at was page 26 and it loaded up on page 27 so you had to wait for it to go through the whole lot!
Mike I never said he didn’t travel well?
Mullins said “He lost a lot of weight ya know coming back, well over the whole trip”
And that is pretty much what I said in my post, nothing about not travelling well?
mickyp….you’re saying Willie gets them to peak at Cheltenham….yes, he does, but so does Henderson. Just look at their respective efforts in previous champion chases….it’s a no contest!
Interesting to hear from both camps today. We had Hendo this morning on Luck On Sunday reporting that the yard had said he’d eaten up well and was bouncing this morning….then later on in the day we had Willie talking to Gary O’Brien after Allaho and he said his horse had lost a lot of weight with the travelling etc…and was said to be tired which would suggest that race took a lot out of him.
Visually, the race looked like Shishkin had the harder race but the aftermath might suggest it took more out of the runner up…?
Seems like as good a thread as any to make my first post in a while!
Absolutely brilliant race, one of the best I’ve seen in a long time. Two giants of the game, the best of England vs the best of Ireland and after the demolition job by the Irish at Cheltenham we needed that so hats off to Nicky Henderson!
Saw a lot of bad things said about Henderson in the week building up to it on various social media but once again he’s proved what a brilliant trainer he is, especially with these two mile chasers! Also tip my hat to Willie for sending his horse over and having a crack at Shishkin….Energumene really surprised me today the way he jumped and travelled…..he’s an exceptional horse himself and much better than I thought!
It was just what racing needed….a heavyweight clash like that which delivered and got people talking.
Be interesting to see the sectionals, as I don’t think they went that quick early on but NDB was clearly delighted after and knowing the horses he’s sat on and ridden, for him to comment about the speed they were going tells it’s own story! Also, the fact there was 18 lengths back to First Flow who was entitled to run a good race at a course he’s gone really well at in the past and even Amoola Gold who likes ascot says it was a proper race too!
Roll on Cheltenham for the rematch, though I fear the outcome will be the same but a bit more comfortable…
I’d scrap it altogether Jack personally.
I still think you’d get the best Mares having a go and holding their own in the top races.
As for PTKO…she’d probably be well beaten at Leopardstown as I don’t think she’s as good there…think there’s other grade 1 options for her though…would love to see her come over to Sandown for the Tingle Creek…slightly better prize money than the Leopardstown race she was beaten by CPS in…trick to her though again will be coming in fresh again…
I personally think both mares who won the big grade 1’s would have won without the concession.
Think it’s more obvious with Honeysuckle as she appeared to have that much in hand.
A bit different with PTKO but how can anyone say she wouldn’t have won with the way she races?
At both festivals she’s won at many people have said she’s not good enough and has plenty to find but she keeps on doing it!
In four course wins now she’s beaten horses rated (151)…(154)…(160)…(165)…and seems to win in the same fashion…digging in and finding for pressure up the hill…I think she’d have done the same without the allowance.
I think they should scrap it.
Cork…
You asked the question is Champ really going to beat Minella Indo over fences…well he’s done it before in last seasons RSA…how good does that form look beating arguably the two most impressive winners of this years festival! Much too early to give up IMO…he put in a decent round of jumping at Newbury on his return but in terms of a gold cup prep one run since the RSA in a two mile chase not long before the festival is awful. If he can get a proper season in next time round I wouldn’t write him off so soon…
Had a night off the other day so managed to watch all 4 days on the itv catch up…agree about the crowd making a difference, that was evident on day one when Appreciate It took it up…you just know the roar would have been huge.
Really enjoyed Shiskin on day one and Honeysuckle who I got very wrong.
Agree with many on here about Rachael Blackmore, she’s a terrific jockey with a real racing brain and will to win…she’s without doubt the female version of Ruby Walsh who was praising her so much for her tactical brain…she’s certainly got the edge on Townsend who didn’t have the best of festivals for me and might just be looking over his shoulder…
The other big thing was obviously the dominance of the Irish…one thing I have noticed on that score is in the interviews with jockeys, trainers etc after winning the Irish mentality seems to be that Cheltenham and having a winner there is absolutely everything while lately there seems to be an attitude amongst many English trainers/jockeys that Cheltenham isn’t the be all and end all and it’s a subject that has been spoken about plenty.
For me it is the be all and end all…it’s the olympics, the World Cup…just after the festival has finished I’m not thinking about Aintree or Punchestown, or anything else, I’m already thinking of next years festival…if we want to challenge the Irish next year then maybe some need to change their thought process…
When small Irish trainers like Hennessy, Nolan, Emmett Mullins, Cromwell etc can come away with a winner and powerful English yards like Nicholls, Skelton, Twiston-Davies, Hobbs, Pipe, O’Brien, McCain, Fry, etc…who all train plenty of winners season after season don’t then questions need to be asked in my view…
Captain Robbo…
That’s some strange comparison to make? Presenting Percy and Shishkin!
Yes, PP was a two time festival winner but took the handicap route first and in amongst were some lesser efforts. His preparation for his gold cup effort was one run in a hurdle race! Not sure who was thinking he was a certainty because I certainly wasn’t…I’m sure if the thread was dug back up more than the majority would have been saying he was an awful favourite and so it proved to be…think too many got carried away with the small yard story and talking up Pat Kelly as some sort of genius…
On the other side you’ve Shishkin…unbeaten in all completed starts and in the hands of a trainer who’s won double figure amounts of Arkles and Champion Chases combined…the route will be mapped out already and he looks totally different class!
Ham…
You say he’s beat nothing, but as is the case in all races you can only beat the horses you’re put up against and he’s doing that with ease. The other clue to how good he is and the other thing he’s continually beating is the clock and that doesn’t lie!
At Kempton he posted a figure about 20lbs better than Nube Negra did when beating Altior and again confirmed that was no fluke when winning his Arkle in a quicker time than PTKO did in the champion chase. Simon Rowlands who I’ve a lot of time for calculated it to be about an 11lb better performance when taking everything into account with them being run on different days. The champion chase saw two horses battling all the way to the line after the last with 3 or 4 running on just in behind. Shishkin on the other hand coasted home in glorious isolation and was eased down to a near walk over the line so it reads even more impressive.
He (Rowlands) is now leaving the comparison with Altior and started to liken him to Sprinter Sacre! I can see why too…he’s got so many gears…on the odd occasion he can appear to be racing lazily but the second Nico shakes the reigns he can make up 3 or 4 lengths in seconds and that’s what all the great two milers have, that injection of pace that can leave rivals for dead…a bit like when Sprinter regained his crown when sauntering passed Un De Sceaux who appeared to be travelling the better but had absolutely no answer when Sprinter went passed him….I firmly believe Shishkin has all that in his locker too.
Lets be honest…if he gets there on the day in one piece there’s not a horse in training at present to touch him…I don’t say that lightly either because I’ve had a right festival thanks to PTKO…one of my best ever antepost pick ups…I love her to bits and her attitude…the way she jumps and digs in for a battle but if coming back to defend her crown she’ll be playing for 2nd place for me…
I suggested on about page 3 or 4 of this thread Henderson ought to have had a go at this with Shiskin if Altior didn’t make it and was laughed off…enjoyed reading it all back though to be fair!
Obviously the Altior withdrawal came much too late but does anyone seriously think, now with the benefit of hindsight, that Shiskin wouldn’t have played a major part if lining up today?
I already backed him for next years straight after the Arkle at 3/1 and think that’s gone now…clear difference with this and the favourite this year is he’s rock solid at Cheltenham with two consecutive festival wins…he’ll only have to get there for on the day to win it…
And for all the stick Henderson gets he did win with Altior at four consecutive festivals…which is no mean feat…
Course form is everything ham….I gave every reason why she could turn it round..
She’d had a hard race going in last time and course and ground didn’t suit…she never got into any kind of rhythm…
Usual jockey back on…jumped better and we know she loves a battle and comes up that hill…
That is as good as Chacun is….at Cheltenham!
As we all know…Cheltenham races aren’t won at Christmas…totally different, track, conditions, race…I seem to remember Defi Du Seuil laughing at Politologue in last seasons Tingle Creek….
Not really Jack…
We know DDG is well short of champion chase class but was given an easy lead that day and Coleman said afterwards she hated the ground and he was about to let her coast home and accept the defeat but she wanted to win and she dug it out. Let’s not forget it was her first run of the season too…CPS was beaten on his return last season by a horse 2nd favourite for this years gold cup and Altior on his first run this season only finished just under 5 lengths in front of DDG…
The big thing for me with her is the liking of Cheltenham, she’s 3/3 so clearly likes the place…she had a fair bit to find on ratings in last years Arkle but found it…there’s absolutely no doubt Henry will have her in tip top shape after the break she’s had and in my opinion CPS will be facing a completely different proposition in her from last time…can easily see her reversing that form…
