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“In Greyhound Racing are there races comprising dogs and bitches, and if so are staggered start allowances made?”
There are such races and no there is no staggered start.
Very few bitches have ever won the Greyhound Derby. I think Sarah’s Bunny was the last in the late 1970s. Not sure how many have attempted and I have rather lost touch with the sport. The general view was a bitch had to be exceptionally good to win the competition with all of the qualifying rounds as well as the final.
A champion should be a champion, not “oh she might not have won had she not be allowed 7lbs”
With Grade 1 mares only races I don’t see why they should be given an allowance.
Having said all that I now realise that the fillies get 3lbs in The Derby. Please don’t ever let a filly win The Derby anytime soon again.
Fifinella was the last filly to win the Derby in 1916, and went on to win the Oaks two days later. Both run at Newmarket due to wartime restrictions. Tagalie in 1912 was the last to win at Epsom
Cape Verdi in 1998, who started favourite after her Guineas win, was the last filly to run in the race and finished unplaced
So, it seems unlikely that a filly will win the Derby “anytime soon” but never say never
Drone, there could be a bigger difference between a 3-year old colt and a 3-year old filly compared to a 7-year old gelding and a 7-year old mare. I think the older they get, the more closer they are and I’m only talking about their equine physiques.
The fact that fillies are permitted to run in the 2000 Gns and Derby, but colts not permitted to run in the 1000 Gns and Oaks is an oddity that perhaps suggests that whenever this anomaly arose it was – in modern parlance – a sexist decision that plucky ‘inferior’ fillies are welcome take their chance against ‘superior’ colts but never the reverse as the girlies would be demolished, poor things
There seems no logical reason why if fillies are permitted to receive 3lbs in colts classics then colts can’t be permitted to give 3lbs in fillies classics
The need for top fillies to gain ‘Black Type’ might explain the need for this anomaly…who knows?
Only 6 fillies have won the Epsom Derby, 7 have won the 2000 Guineas and 3 have won the Kentucky Derby. Very few seem to compete in these 3 classics to this day, although strangely 42 have won the St Leger, but only 7 since WW2. If there’s no gender disadvantage why don’t trainers/owners run them more?
Forget to mention that 23 fillies and 1 mare have won the Arc, first run in 1920………..seems they win the Leger and Arc more often due to it being Autumn.
At both festivals she’s won at many people have said she’s not good enough and has plenty to find but she keeps on doing it!
In four course wins now she’s beaten horses rated (151)…(154)…(160)…(165)…and seems to win in the same fashion…digging in and finding for pressure up the hill…I think she’d have done the same without the allowance.
I think they should scrap it.
Scrap it completely or for grade 1s?
I mean Honeysuckle as you say is clear and obviously ahead of the pack.
PTKO not so much. I take your point at Cheltenham shes wins gamely, but what about elsewhere? How far would she be beaten in other G1s judging by Leopardstown?
I agree with @gingertipster there’s a case for it to be reduced, but the issue is without it completely, we see mares stay vs mares and not compete as often, especially with the new mares races.
Mares have become much more popular to race rather than just breed off, and i’d say the loss of the allowance would be counterproductive. We are going through a spell whereby mares are doing well, let’s see if it becomes a long term thing.Twitter: Jackh1092
Hindsight is 20/20 so make the most of it!I’d scrap it altogether Jack personally.
I still think you’d get the best Mares having a go and holding their own in the top races.
As for PTKO…she’d probably be well beaten at Leopardstown as I don’t think she’s as good there…think there’s other grade 1 options for her though…would love to see her come over to Sandown for the Tingle Creek…slightly better prize money than the Leopardstown race she was beaten by CPS in…trick to her though again will be coming in fresh again…
Why not get a panel of independent experts eg James Willoughby to decide what should be done? They have all the info and stats required.
I have no confidence in the BHA deciding anything.
Surely more fillies running and winning the St Leger is due to there being no GI equivalent for them?I still think you’d get the best Mares having a go and holding their own in the top races.
The majority of the top mares are stabled with WPM most seasons, that limits the chances of giving them a go. He will do all he can do win races at the festival, and without a mares allowance, there will be every chance they will be in a mares hurdle or chase 9 times out of 10.
It’s also safe to say that unless PTKO had 6pds hidden under her bonnet, she’d have been beaten in a substandard QMCC this year without the allowance.
Henry isn’t daunted by running mares in open company, there’s no doubt, but it does help that PTKO had won an Arkle and was owned by a ballsy syndicate. Fair chance she’d have ended up in a Mares Chase in most other circumstances.
Scrapping it altogether won’t happen IMO, as breeders and the buyers hold too much power, and it would dent the sales of mares.
Twitter: Jackh1092
Hindsight is 20/20 so make the most of it!“Was it Admiral Rous who introduced mares’ allowance along with his WFA scale or was it a more recent introduction?”
I found this thread while looking for something else. Exactly what that was eludes me now.
The allowance goes back at least as far as 1780, predating the Admiral’s rules of racing by 78 years. The conditions for that year’s Derby stipulated that colts must carry 8st whereas fillies were burdened with 7st 11lb.
Either one, two or zero fillies contested the race, there being some dispute as to the gender of both Spitfire and Polydore.
I don’t know who introduced this allowance, or exactly when it was implemented, but 1780 wouldn’t be too wide of the mark.
On the Flat, over 1m4f in races like the Arc, Enable used to get 3lb, worth a length or two.
Over Jumps it’s 7lb and that can be worth anything from five to seven lengths and, the Softer the ground and the longer the trip, the more weight counts.
Are Epatante, Put The Kettle on and even Honeysuckle really that great?
The 7lb allowance has worked wonders for them – two Champion Hurdles and a Champion Chase.
Yes, mares can be temperamental and come in season – no allowance would be big enough when that happens.
But in the normal course of events when that run their race that 7lb is a GIFT.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Rewinding 4 years, the first running of the St Leger in 1776 saw colts set to carry 8st with fillies on 7st 12lb.
I’d do away with age and sex allowances after the King George. Lets see who the best is.
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