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Haven’t had a bet in this one yet. Gonna wait for the official racecard but atm I’m leaning towards Amazing Maria and J Wonder.
French trainers rarely get their horses at their peak for their seasonal reappearances anyway. Treve is still very much the best horse in the world in my books. Kingman may have something to say bout that eventually as may Australia, who is still all hype atm. Just A Way from Japan and their 3 year old filly, Harp Star, both look very talented but all of these still have a lot to prove.
Treve will walk the Prince of Wales in my opinion. My only slight worry is Frankie who looked out of sorts against Soumillon out there. I would rather Jarnet had kept the ride.
How soon we forget Goldikova.
I don’t think anyone forgot about Goldi but I can’t remember any Goldikova win that truly ranks anywhere near what we’ve seen today. In fact, people talk about the Arc and Vermeille, but Zarkava’s defeat of Goldikova in the French 1000 Guineas was in my opinion her most impressive win. She walked her past that day under a hand and heels ride with Soumillon spending most of the last furlong celebrating, and that was on Goldikova’s favourite trip, 1600m, whilst Zarkava herself was a classic distance horse. Unfortunately, this win has largely overlooked because no one really knew what an exceptional filly Goldikova was at the time, largely due to Zarkava making her look ordinary. That’s why I’ve largely considered ZArkava as the best filly/mare of the last decade or so.
But, I think it’s fair to say Treve trumped that today. I would have considered what she did today strictly within the realms of impossibility had I not witnessed it. She was warmest of all before the race, race the widest during it, pulled the hardest, went for home the earliest and yet still finished the strongest. There are many good calls on this thread about fillies who’ve ridiculously impressive in disposing of their rivals in the final straight, but none of them in my mind did it after such an impossible run. I have no doubts had I been on my betfair account that I would have laid her proper in running, so impossible I deemed her task to win from there.
:lol:
I have NEVER said Black Cavar, Atlantic Jewel or So You Think’s Australian trainers have done anything ILLEGAL Jollyp.
STEROIDS were perfectly LEGAL in Australia.
indeed.Bring it on you loud mouth soft c#ck,all mouth and no trousers you soft poonce!!!
How insightful! Getting on your nerves, am I?
Jealous of what exactly? The fact that not a single one of the top ten of the last edition of the Melbourne Cup was actually aussie-bred, and the fact that the year before that there was one aussie-bred in the top 10 (a mere 8th). Or the fact that Aussie-breds represent only 4 of the current top 30 in weights for this year’s edition. And, that if you’re not careful you will end up with no aussie-bred horses in the most famous in Australia (considering Europe don’t even send their very best horses over). Damn right I’m jealous!
Um you have never won the cup
end of story No I don’t let dime a dozen wannabe’s like you bother me son. So you wasted all that time doing the stats to tell me you have never won the f#cking cup You do sound seriously bothered though.
The day I’ll be jealous is the day there won’t a French-bred horse in the top ten of The Arc or a British-bred horse in the top ten finishers of the King George. By the way, I’m not sure what "you have never won the cup" is referring to. I’m pretty sure I’ve mentioned to that goldfish brain before that I’m not British myself. The horse that represents my nickname you might eventually figure out is actually French. It might also be of note to you that that mare who won the Cup three times on the trot is actually British-bred.In what world is stating a fact now belittling? Reliable Man routed It’s A Dundeel, end of. You called It’s A Dundeel Arc class, and 5 lengths better than So You Think. It’s not my fault you ended up with egg on your face. Now, Reliable Man is a talented horse, but he was 15th in the Arc and most certainly would not have beaten SYT by 5 lengths. And, now, you went on to claim Altantic Jewel was the best horse in the world by a bit. You never learn, do you? And, don’t even try to convince us that was Sea Moon’s true form. You’re a bit of a premature ejaculator, are ya son? That’s how I picture you in my mind.
http://gifs.gifbin.com/092010/1284373741_goalie-penalty-kick-fail.gif
Bring it on you loud mouth soft c#ck,all mouth and no trousers you soft poonce!!!
How insightful! Getting on your nerves, am I?
Jealous of what exactly? The fact that not a single one of the top ten of the last edition of the Melbourne Cup was actually aussie-bred, and the fact that the year before that there was one aussie-bred in the top 10 (a mere 8th). Or the fact that Aussie-breds represent only 4 of the current top 30 in weights for this year’s edition. And, that if you’re not careful you will end up with no aussie-bred horses in the most famous in Australia (considering Europe don’t even send their very best horses over). Damn right I’m jealous!
In what world is stating a fact now belittling? Reliable Man routed It’s A Dundeel, end of. You called It’s A Dundeel Arc class, and 5 lengths better than So You Think. It’s not my fault you ended up with egg on your face. Now, Reliable Man is a talented horse, but he was 15th in the Arc and most certainly would not have beaten SYT by 5 lengths. And, now, you went on to claim Altantic Jewel was the best horse in the world by a bit. You never learn, do you? And, don’t even try to convince us that was Sea Moon’s true form. You’re a bit of a premature ejaculator, are ya son? That’s how I picture you in my mind.
http://gifs.gifbin.com/092010/1284373741_goalie-penalty-kick-fail.gif
He’s just not the same horse. The Cirrus of last year would have murdered that field. It does get more difficult to recover from injury setbacks with age I believe, so I would probably say it’s due to a combination of age and setbacks. But, I would not completely bury him just yet even though his runs this season have been so far quite worrying.
Well, I guess he’s just overrated then. Also thought he needed longer beforehand but it didn’t even looked too sharp for him. If anything, he showed some early acceleration only to be outfought/outstayed. They may say he didn’t like the ground but imo he just doesn’t look like Group 1 quality.
I do not find myself often agreeing with Andyod, but I’m gonna side with him on this one. I might agree that his last two Coronation Cups were foregone conclusions (no disrespect to Australia and Hong Kong but Dunaden and Red Cadeaux aren’t Group 1 winning quality by European standards) but his first one certainly wasn’t. Midday was a top top class racemare and never a pushover in my books, irrespective of the odds (in fact St Nic may have been evens but she was also 5/4 in the race). Similarly, I’m no fan of the Breeders’ Cup, but the one he won was no poor edition with all of Sarafina, Midday and Sea Moon in behind. Even in Meydan, he got the better of Gentildonna, who had just defeated Orfevre a few months before, and of course St Nic was already very unlucky the previous year against Cirrus. I don’t know if he’s a good betting proposition, but bar the last two Coronation, mopping up his Group 1s he did not!
Terrible terrible news, but in some sense I’m happy that he went off on the highest of all possible highs a trainer could ever wish for. I can’t imagine any better trainer Frankel could have gone to. The greatest racehorse for the greatest trainer. RIP Sir Henry.
I personally don’t think Frankel had a lot to prove,though others do.
Well he still did prove something to someone that day – Black Caviar’s own trainer finally realizing Frankel was the world’s best horse.
You have stated that about 15 times,have you got anything else instead of sounding like a broken record?
No, I haven’t stated it 15 times. That’s my bloody signature you idiot, so of course it’s gonna appear in all of my posts. Admittedly, must be hard for you to take, which I got to admit makes it even more fun. So it’s not going away anytime soon!
I personally don’t think Frankel had a lot to prove,though others do.
Well he still did prove something to someone that day – Black Caviar’s own trainer finally realizing Frankel was the world’s best horse.
Having made the trip down from Scotland to Ascot to witness the great horse himself in his last ever race, I feel that I can offer a little first hand perspective on this issue.
The ground was very soft that day, so a stamina sapping 10f.
Frankel cruised to the front, but his speed was blunted slightly by the mud. He cruised past Cirrus but then as soon as Queally asked for more he came off the bridle for the first time. By the line he was close to running on empty. He did not have much in reserve, and had this race been over 12f Cirrus would have stayed on and beaten him I reckon.
Having said all that, the Derby was not run on soft ground, but on firm. And it did not have a horse the calibre of Cirrus. Personally having seen him run a soft ground 10f I doubt he had the class to compensate for a lack of stamina over 12f. Over a mile the horse was great, but lets not pretend he could have been great over a distance he never tried, and for good reason.
Just my observations
I was also at Ascot that day and I would beg to differ. Cirrus Des Aigles didn’t make any ground on him in the last furlong. If anything, if you look closely, the distance between Frankel and Cirrus at the line was actually bigger than what it was at the last furlong pole albeit very slightly. This is further supported by the time sectionals from RUK (12.68-12.26-12.07-11.91). Frankel went quicker for every single furlong, with the last one being the quickest. So, he was hardly running on empty. In fact, that last furlong was even quicker than what Cirrus and So You Think finished in the same race the year before, and that was on good ground (I was there for that one as well, Champions Day is my new favorite racing day). I can see your point from a visual impression perspective, but I don’t think visual impression paints a very accurate picture in this case.
And, as you said, that race was run in stamina-sapping conditions and in that respect was a bit more than your usual 1m2f. It must also be noted that Frankel won on around 2100m at York, going further and further away from a confirmed 1m4f horse in St Nicholas Abbey. But coming back to the Ascot race, Cirrus Des Aigles was arguably the best heavy ground horse in the world up to that point having won his last three races in such conditions by around 9 lengths every time. Yet, that day, Frankel got the better of the second highest rated horse in the world on his favorite ground and trip, making Frankel the best soft going horse around in spite of the fact he didn’t really relish such ground. We shouldn’t forget that Nathaniel, a confirmed 1m4f and soft going horse, was well beaten in third. Nathaniel was from the same classic season as Frankel and in my mind would have won the Derby had he shown up. After all, he did win a much better race than the Derby in the King George against St Nic, Workforce and the ill-fated Rewilding a few months later. Yet, even if there were two more furlongs in that testing ground on Champions Day, there was absolute no chance of Nathaniel coming back to beat Frankel.
So, to sum up, I do think Frankel would have won the Derby that year. It might not have been his best trip but he’s so far ahead of the likes of Treasure Beach that I cannot possibly imagine the latter reversing the 11 lengths beating he received in the Royal Lodge, irrespective of the distance. Even Carlton House ,who did not really stay the trip and is hardly a third the horse Frankel is, finished a decent fourth. As someone mentioned, I believe the only reason Frankel could have lost that race is not due to pulling or not staying but possibly the hard race he had in the Guineas, which is the very reason he could have lost the St James Palace in my mind. I know Queally came in for a lot of criticism that day, but tbh had they ridden that way without the Guineas beforehand, he would have completely routed them. If anything, the Guineas ride was probably the more suicidal ride of the two and did take a fair bit out of the horse. But, it’s a credit to the horse exceptional ability that even after these two hard races, he did what he did to Canford Cliffs in the Sussex.
Dawn Approach ran like a horse making his 3rd lifetime start.
Nothing to do with his stamina or lack thereof, he was just very rank. That’s something they ought to have dealt with on the gallops beforehand, but with some more miles on him Dawn Approach will turn out to be a top older horse. Assuming Coolmore doesn’t retire him here and now.
He’s not owned by Coolmore. In fact, he’s owned by arguably their biggest rival.
I couldn’t win the Derby, so Dawn Approach has no fooking chance
Is he too fast to win a Derby?
Anyone else think that Farhh looked rather muscular yesterday?
And the fact they’d been out of form all season and then just ran away with two group races rather worrying, just as they’ve been under investigation for drug offences?
He has always looked pretty muscular to me. I remember last year’s Sussex Stakes. Usually Frankel, in spite of not being incredibly tall, would usually stand out musculature wise. But, I also recall thinking this Farhh fella ain’t badly built either.
No I don’t let dime a dozen wannabe’s like you bother me son. So you wasted all that time doing the stats to tell me you have never won the f#cking cup 