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Irrespective of whether Joseph deserved to be on the horse or not, So You Think would never have won that one. Maybe one could argue that a "top" jock would have made the difference on St Nic, even though I do personally think Joseph is a very good jockey, but it would not have changed anything for So you Think. He gave the horse an inch-perfect ride, but SYT was just not good enough despite having the run of the race. Overhyped and overrated.
FYI, Dr. Fager is the best miler ever produced although he won at much longer distances too. He would spot your Frankel 10lbs and beat him by 10! FACT!
No, that’s not a fact, that’s merely YOUR opinion! FACT!
Maybe when you realise the difference between an opinion and a fact, people will start taking you seriously. Till then…
My father once told me that an absolute champion on the flat was a horse that could win in Group 1 company from 6f to a mile and a half. I tend to agree.
The discussion of what constitutes true greatness has been had many times on TRF and, with all due respect to both your father and your good self, what you’ve said above simply isn’t true. Sea Bird himself never won at less than a mile- does that disqualify him from champion status? And don’t get me started on that useless carthorse Eclipse….
An ability to defeat all-comers over a wide variety of distances does, indeed, prove that a horse is a great champion; however, it is not the sole criterion. Any horse which demonstrates overwhelming superiority over its peers at any distance is a true champion, too.
I did win at less than a mile, but I do completely agree with your point.
Exactly Coggy. And, anyway, I doubt a horse that will go down in every history book, as bred and owned by Prince Khalid Abdullah, is John Magnier’s fulfilled dream as claimed by the OP.
Well, we could even go up to St Simon, up to Eclipse I guess. Unanswerable question really, but worth a debate.
Some real typical punter bullshite being spouted on here. I won’t pretend to know who is the better of the two, nor do I know who is gonna win tomorrow, but one for thing for sure is that anyone who is trying to convince me that either Frankel or Canford Cliffs ain’t a great un’ is bigging him/herself up for ridicule.
Just because one fancies Frankel or Canford does not mean one has to denigrate the other’s obvious exceptional ability. If anything, such comments just strike me as real insecurity from the poster his/her own fancy (just a way of reassurance I guess). I mean, is it really that hard to acknowledge the fact we are in the presence of two very special animals.
Some of the comments are just ridiculous. Frankel is only an "ok", "decent" horse, beating a bunch of very average 3 year olds, "he ain’t a great one coz’ greats don’t need pacemakers", "he ain’t a great one coz’ thare ain’t need for tactics talk with greats". Hahaha, let me laugh, Frankel has so far destroyed, yes destroyed, potentially the best sprinter in the country, potentially the best classic distance horse who’s just beaten two of the ante-post facourites for the Arc, an Irish Guineas winner, an Irish Derby winner and Derby runnerup, a German Derby winner and you could even add a very impressive Strong Suit to that today. As for needing pacemaker, well, not only has he won 6 out of 7 without one, but he has even shown he could actually be the pacemaker himself and bag a classic race. And, as for tactic talks, well if there weren’t any tactical preparation from either Hannon or Cecil (which I’m sure there will be), well that wouldn’t strike me as a sign of confidence in one’s ability as much as an utter lack of professionalism. And, anyway, there are as much tactical questions about Frankel as there are for Canford.
To sum it up, both of these machines have shown and done enough to be respected as two real champs. So, just get out there an enjoy this clash between these two freaks you bunch of ungrateful, insatiable, faultfinding idiots.
And, btw, go Rajsaman!
While it was a nice race to watch, it also killed any slight hope I had of witnessing a Sea The Stars, Zarkava or Harbinger out there this year. So You Think is quality Group 1 performer in his own right, but he clearly isn’t the wonderhorse he was being painted out as, nor is Wokforce for the matter. That said, that’s probably what makes the Sea the Stars, Zarkava etc… that little bit super special.
Anyway, my thoughts after this race – French winner in the Arc.
