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I saw your response….something along the lines of "an insult – is that all you can come up with?"
Well to be honest I do not see how it is possible not to rate that previous posting of yours as arrogant and certainly insular in your view of American racing and racing outside of Europe in general. Thank goodness the likes of Dermot Weld (Melbourne Cups etc), Godolphin, Aidan O’Brien, Michael Stoute along with the likes of connections of the Australian sprinters, connections of Overdose, Luca Cumani for spotting Falbrav in Italy etc etc do not follow your apparent line of thinking in that the racing world ends just on the border of Paris or just because it is different it means little or nothing.
And to think it the Americans that are often considered arrogant and insular….
Edit – I was going to respond but decided not to lower myself to your level
And to think it the Americans that are often considered arrogant and insular….
Presumably you are being deliberately flippant. The Breeders’ Cup Classic is a $5 Million challenge which often showcases the Eclipse Horse of the Year in USA.
Nope Adrian I was being absolutely serious. Just because it has a $5,000,000 tag does not mean the Americans can just "buy" a top race. I concede it may be the top "all weather" race in the world, but that is all it is, a glorified all weather race.
As for showcasing the Eclipse Horse of the Year in America – what relevance is that for people over here? If you have an interest in American racing then fine – if not then who cares – it is just as relevant to me as the champion racehorse in Peru or Outer Mongolia.
As you know John Gosden didn’t think it meaningless for Raven’s Pass last year. Aidan O’Brien wants to run Rip Van Winkle and Mastercraftsman in order for them to star on one of the biggest days in racing. Giant’s Causeway was a great horse in Europe but by finishing 2nd in the Classic he paved the way to a fabulous career as a stallion in the States.
Do you seriously think Gosden, O’Brien et al send their horses there for the prestige? Of course not – it is simply for the money.
If some crazy millionaire like Sir Alan Stanford set up a race at some obscure racecourse with a $5,000,000 purse then the big trainers would flock like bees round a honeypot – but that would not necessarily make it meaningful race.
I fully appreciate you are a great fan of American racing and you clearly see the BC from a different perspective than me.
It would have more appeal if it was not surrounded by the typical American hype whereby they assume because it is being held on their hallowed turf (or dirt or whatever other artificial surface they wish to use) that makes it the World Championships because it ain’t.
I certainly know, without any shadow of doubt whatsoever, if I owned a horse the class of Sea The Stars then he would not be allowed anywhere near the Breeders Cup.
But that is just my personal view and I fully accept others will disagree.
It is interesting that of the three horses you have narrowed it down to, two horses are trained by Godolphin who’s trend for early season form in recent years has been diabolical and that it rules out Irish trained horses – a country that has won 6 of the last 8 renewals.
The adverts are gone and the forum is back up runing at the right pace….good stuff.
Get rid of the Hot/Recent topics as well..
The space for the postings is just far too small. Even aside from the adverts,on either side of the screen there is loads of "grey area". Can the adverts not be pushed right onto the border allowing the actual message space be stretched?
Whats more when you log in, only around 3-4 thread titles are visible before having to scroll down….and in this section they will always be the same few seeing as they are stuck to the top.
So stretch the width of the thread content and condense the thread titles….plus all the stuff Grasshopper said.
Thevery same stat could have been thrown at Fame And Glory forrunning in the 1m2f group 1 in France last year. Ballydoyle have tons of stay horses these days – trends are open to be changed. They have run the likes of Septimus and Brian Boru in this.
A quick look down O’Briens Beresford stakes winners should show you in what regard he holds the race and indeed the horses he runs in it.
Five Dynasties, Albert Hall, Eagle Mountain, Masterofthehorse? Am I being dense here or is Septimus his only top class runner in the Beresford since it became a Group 2?
Can add Turnberry Isle, Bernstein and Lermontov to the list of runners he’s had in the race. My point is that he doesn’t run his best horses in it – very often second or third tier 2yo colts and it’s been that way for quite some time.
Not saying SNA won’t win tomorrow – I think he will but don’t expect him to go on and demolish all before him at 3 or even later in the season at Doncaster or wherever else he may go.
It should be pointed out that went Sea The Stars beat RVW over a mile, Delegator and Gan Amhras did too, when Sea The Stars beat him over 12 furlongs so did Golden Sword and Masterofthehorse. The only genuine clash they have had was at Sandown when RVW give him a fight but STS proved just too good.
A gutsy, determined performance from Rip Van Winkle – brave as a lion.
Will be very intriguing to see how he performs in the Breeder’s Cup Classic. He certainly isn’t without a chance.
As for being Europe’s best miler.
I would give that title to Goldikova
.
Agree with you on that, H.
Hard to look past her, really.
We witnessed last season with Henry and Ravens Pass that it’s not impossible for a horse to reverse form late on, despite early season dominance, and Rip would go there with every chance.
The difference is that STS has defeated RVW over eight, ten and twelve furlongs so decisively that Rip could only take revenge if STS seriously underperforms.
Zenyatta is a different proposition altogether. US jocks know the time of day with their eyes closed and if produced with her customary late burst, Sea The Stars, who doesn’t do a lot in front, might not have time to respond.
She poses the biggest danger to his unbeaten record this season.
Both Captain James Cook and September Morn are entered in Gowran Park. Fame And Glory did not turn up until the back end of the season – loads of mile maidens coming up.
The punters money breathes air into horse racing, yet we get treated with utter contempt. We’ve every right to be suspicous or criticise when we want. O’Brien has a history of withdrawls in dis-proportion with other stables. Are you telling me that nobody should be criticised because nobody in horse racing makes under hand moves, brendan ?
Question all you like, but stop acting as if you "guesses" are confirmed facts when they are far from it.
If it is lame, then i’d imagine it just didn’t happen this morning. They would have known and could have told people that there might be a problem, like they did with RVW.
They worked the horse this morning, and the horse pulled up lame. He was not lame the day before or showed any signs of it – Betfair showed no weakness in the horse.
If the horse was lame the day before he would not have worked this morning.
It is antepost betting on horses – take it on the chin and stop looking for someone to blame.
And the bookies win money for nothing yet again. Pathetic show from Ballydoyle.
The horse galloped this morning and pulled up lame – not sure what exactly they have done wrong but sure crucify them when you only have half the facts.
Should be noted that Al Zir was bought from the American breeze up sales – I was impressed with him at Newmarket but given the type of early education he would have recieved for his sales preps (he was galloping in blinkers) then it should be factored in that he was likely to be very streetwise indeed on his debut compared to some of his rivals that day.
How many more times will an all-age Group 1 be the "first time we might just find out how good these 3yo’s are"?
WTF are you babbling on about now. Take the first 5 out of the Guineas and the Dreby……Apart from Conduit running in a race the majority of people would agree was over a distance well short of his best, StS MCM RVW F + G and Delegator haven’t taken on anything outside their own age group.
The only horse who did venture outside was Golden Sword and he got stuffed.
The Derby form isn’t worh a pinch of sh!t as it stands. Fame and Glory 2nd won a deperate Irish Derby, Masterofthehorse was absolutely stuffed in both his races since, Rip Van Winkle turns out to be a miler and Golden Sword previously mentioned gets run over in the King George.
If Casual Conquest were to beat Fame and Glory the 3yo Classic form will take one helluva bad knock.
Now if you have seen some race I missed Oh Chief of Peruvian intellegence then say so other than that keep your sarcastic comments to yourself
Rip Van Winkle stuffed the older horses in the Sussex Stakes too. I find it remarkable you can be so questioning of the three year old form yet fall over yourself over an unproven colt like Canford Cliffs.
Heffernan has always had a jockey’s agent – just recently changed his. I would be fascinated to know who these "irish racing elders" are who are not happy with O’Brien going to Doncaster every year – particularly as he does not.
"The title of this thread is something you’d expect on a rag tabloid paper."
I have found a future career as a HACK
Yes while it will only affect AOB and John Murtagh mostly its disappointing that they couldnt find different Saturdays for the racing after all there is terrible racing on a lot of Saturdays.
A lot of Irish Racing elders are seriously annoyed that AOB goes to Doncaster on Leger day when they believe he should support the Irish one. I think that argument is pretty pointless as many dont care about the Irish Leger and the English one is a Bumper for flat Horses. But nevertheless this change of the National to the Card makes sure he wont be going anywhere now even if the GAA was the reason but they dont even get a full crowd most years for the Hurling and Kilkenny isnt the hotbed of Racing supporters.
My point is the Doncaster Leger Saturday is a part of the weekend racing instead of the Racing Weekend.
On the Heff point…turns out the man has got himself a Agent for the first time ever last month. I cant see him taking a ride on a "BIG" horse in the race. Afterall his climbdown from the Drumbeat affair was rather Humilating for the man. Mind you Colm should get more rides….that fella is quality in the saddle
With respect I could not care less how far Hughes thinks he will stay…horse is bred to be a sharp and early two year old and that is all he will be (a high class one mind).
Why has the Dewhurst, National Stakes, or the Group 1 on Arc day never been mentioned for him? They are the true and genuine tests for a 2 year old colt with serious Classic aspirations and one suitable for a horse "guaranteed to get a mile" next year. Instead we have the Morny and Middle Park mentioned (they even dodged taking on the Ballydoyle colts in the Phoenix Stakes)…..everything about the horse tells us he is a two year old (regardless what connections say). Imagine we will be going around in circles on this one so will leave it at that.
The horse is built like a fast two year old, bred like a fast two year old and races like a fast two year old – why would you put him away now missing out on his two year old career meaning his next race would be the Guineas – a race that on breeding he is very unlikely to stay even if he was good enough.
The fact they are going for the Middle Park – and not the top 7 furlong races – tells you all you need to know about the horse.
