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Irish Champion Stakes 2009

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  • #12426
    Imperial Call
    Member
    • Total Posts 2184

    246E Tattersalls Millions Irish Champion Stks (Group 1) €559,000.00 ( 1m 2f – 3yo+ )[MAX 22] RRFrm

    2-213 1 Casual Conquest(121) (DKWeld) – …. 9,07
    190-6 2 Cima De Triomphe (LMCumani (in GB)) – . ……………………. 9,07
    -214- 3 Doctor Fremantle (GB) (SirMStoute (in GB)) – . ……………….. 9,07
    -2211 4 Famous Name (GB)(117) (DKWeld) – …………………………… 9,07
    8-752 5 Lord Admiral (USA)(108) (CO’Brien) – …………………………… 9,07
    32-54 6 Poet (GB)(100) (APO’Brien) – . ………… 9,07
    31325 7 Red Rock Canyon(103) (APO’Brien) – …………………………. 9,07
    124-1 8 Tartan Bearer (SirMStoute (in GB)) – …………………………… 9,07
    9 Twice Over (GB) (HRACecil (in GB)) – . ……………………………. 9,07
    12437 10 Mad About You(111) (DKWeld) – ……. 9,04
    11 Bridge Of Gold (USA) (MAMagnusson (in GB)) – . ………………… 9,00
    -1121 12 Fame And Glory (GB)(128) (APO’Brien) – …………… 9,00
    2-306 13 Gan Amhras(117) (JSBolger) – . ……… 9,00
    243-1 14 Grand Ducal(107) (APO’Brien) – . ……. 9,00
    5-811 15 Loch Long(86) (TCollins) – …………….. 9,00
    30878 16 Malibu Bay (USA)(100) (APO’Brien) -…………………….. 9,00
    4-511 17 Mastercraftsman(122) (APO’Brien) – …………………….. 9,00
    -4421 18 Rip Van Winkle(130) (APO’Brien) – …. 9,00
    10948 19 Rockhampton(100) (APO’Brien) – …… 9,00
    1-111 20 Sea The Stars(133) (JMOxx) – . ………. 9,00
    40002 21 Set Sail(102) (APO’Brien) – …………….. 9,00
    22 Zacinto (GB) (SirMStoute (in GB)) – .. 9,00

    Previous winners:
    1999 Daylami – Yielding to soft
    2000 Giants Causeway – Good
    2001 Fantastic Light – Good
    2002 Grandera – Good to firm
    2003 High Chaparral – Good to firm (good in straight)
    2004 Azamour – Good to firm
    2005 Oratorio – Good to yielding
    2006 Dylan Thomas – Good to firm
    2007 Dylan Thomas – Good to firm
    2008 New Approach – Yielding, yielding to soft in place

    Sea The Stars vs Fame And Glory the rematch. Can see another small enough field for this one. Hopefully we’ll get decent ground for it. Let the debate begin!!

    #244564
    Imperial Call
    Member
    • Total Posts 2184

    Paddy Power bet:

    Sea The Stars 1/2
    Fame And Glory 7/4

    #244567
    thehorsesmouth
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5552

    It would be nearly worth a punt on Fame And Glory @ 7/4 because if the ground comes up any way softish Sea The Stars will not run and Fame And Glory will then probably be odds on.

    #244571
    Zarkava
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4691

    True, very true.

    Interesting fact (or maybe not) but Montjeu hasn’t had a 3yo/older Group 1 winner over less than the Juddmonte International trip and some top class horses have failed trying. Motivator, Hurricane Run and Authorized – 4 attempts over 10f and 4 fails with 2 long odds-on.

    Montjeu’s a sire who’s stamina laden. Macarthur, Frozen Fire, Honolulu, Scorpion, Papal Bull, Walk In the Park, etc, all packed with stamina. Eventually he’ll have a winner over 10f but Fame And Glory is not the one to do it. He’s too slow and too one-paced.

    Waste of time even considering the others.

    #244587
    Goldikova
    Member
    • Total Posts 1537

    I agree that the 7/4 on F&G looks reasonable. I’m on after just taking the plunge. This is a funny old game, and i have my doubts to STS’s participation.

    #244658
    RedRiot
    Member
    • Total Posts 870

    True, very true.

    Interesting fact (or maybe not) but Montjeu hasn’t had a 3yo/older Group 1 winner over less than the Juddmonte International trip and some top class horses have failed trying. Motivator, Hurricane Run and Authorized – 4 attempts over 10f and 4 fails with 2 long odds-on.

    Montjeu’s a sire who’s stamina laden. Macarthur, Frozen Fire, Honolulu, Scorpion, Papal Bull, Walk In the Park, etc, all packed with stamina. Eventually he’ll have a winner over 10f but Fame And Glory is not the one to do it. He’s too slow and too one-paced.

    Waste of time even considering the others.

    Fame And Glory’s times do not suggest he is slow over 10f, he was a lot faster than Galileo over 10f but slower over the 12f. It would be fair to say he isnt the best in acceleration, but he can defientely cruise at a very fast speed once he gets there, and will be extremly hard to pass if he gets his head in front especially if they go a furious tempo which will happen for sure.

    Evertyime there has been a fast pace in his races he has been anything but slow, saying he is too slow is way way off the mark.

    #244691
    Imperial Call
    Member
    • Total Posts 2184

    True, very true.

    Interesting fact (or maybe not) but Montjeu hasn’t had a 3yo/older Group 1 winner over less than the Juddmonte International trip and some top class horses have failed trying. Motivator, Hurricane Run and Authorized – 4 attempts over 10f and 4 fails with 2 long odds-on.

    Montjeu’s a sire who’s stamina laden. Macarthur, Frozen Fire, Honolulu, Scorpion, Papal Bull, Walk In the Park, etc, all packed with stamina.

    Eventually he’ll have a winner over 10f but Fame And Glory is not the one to do it. He’s too slow and too one-paced.

    Waste of time even considering the others.

    Add Hurricane Fly to that list!!

    If it rains consistently for the next fortnight then I can’t see anything stopping Fame And Glory from winning this. However, if the ground is suitable (which it has been for 7 out of the last 10 renewals), and Sea The Stars runs, then Fame And Glory will probably be running for second place.

    #244695
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    PP might take a lage bet but you can bet your life if they did it will be not under AP rules but NRNB rule 4 applies. Then you would be backing F and G at 8/13.

    Probably a good few thousand people will have thought about doing the same thing and a good few of them would open PP accounts.

    If this race was 1m4f Fame and Glory would have a bit of a chance but no matter what Tabor says or thinks I can’t see him having anywhere near enough toe to beat Sea the Stars ar 1m2f

    JM has a;ways said RVW woul be the better horse and after his last win albeit over a mile who’s to say he is wrong.

    Common sense as got to tell you if RVW couldn’t beat StS why would anyone think F and G could?

    The one way they might beat him is to run Mastercraftsman and make it another real test like yeterday and F and G might just outstay him but he didn’t exctly look spent yesterday.

    I hinestly don’t think there is a way that any OAB horse can beat him at 1m2f and Oxx doesn’t seem to be prepared to run him over 1m4f.

    The Arc would be uncharted territory for Sea the Stars and there is no real guide to how he would compare to Conduuit eg at that trip.

    Oxx would need to be nuts to try and find out when he can take the Irish and retire him. He will have then won what? 7 Group 1’s is it? Whatever! but he’d have beaten Fame and Glory twice, Rip Van Winkle twice, Mastercraftsman twice and the fact he beat Conduit over an unsuitable distance won’t matter…. if one of them win the Arc his form gets a huge boost. So he doesn’t have to run him he can sit back and let the others do the work for him.

    Ony my opinion but a smart man would retrie him asap.

    #244708
    seabird
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2924

    I don’t think that it’s been mentioned, apologies if it has, Kinane, interviewed on RUK after the race, reported that Oxx had left quite a bit of work on Sea The Stars. If that is so, then the work that the horse had to put in to get to Mastercraftsman is understandable.

    If Kinane is overstating the horse’s lack of peak fitness then I would be beginning to think that perhaps the horse has had enough for this season.

    Colin

    #244768
    Gerald
    Member
    • Total Posts 4293

    Last week Oxx said that the Irish Champion Stakes was the main target (rather than the International).

    #244827
    brendanr
    Member
    • Total Posts 196

    PP might take a lage bet but you can bet your life if they did it will be not under AP rules but NRNB rule 4 applies. Then you would be backing F and G at 8/13.

    Probably a good few thousand people will have thought about doing the same thing and a good few of them would open PP accounts.

    If this race was 1m4f Fame and Glory would have a bit of a chance but no matter what Tabor says or thinks I can’t see him having anywhere near enough toe to beat Sea the Stars ar 1m2f

    JM has a;ways said RVW woul be the better horse and after his last win albeit over a mile who’s to say he is wrong.

    Common sense as got to tell you if RVW couldn’t beat StS why would anyone think F and G could?

    The one way they might beat him is to run Mastercraftsman and make it another real test like yeterday and F and G might just outstay him but he didn’t exctly look spent yesterday.

    I hinestly don’t think there is a way that any OAB horse can beat him at 1m2f and Oxx doesn’t seem to be prepared to run him over 1m4f.

    The Arc would be uncharted territory for Sea the Stars and there is no real guide to how he would compare to Conduuit eg at that trip.

    Oxx would need to be nuts to try and find out when he can take the Irish and retire him. He will have then won what? 7 Group 1’s is it?

    Whatever! but he’d have beaten Fame and Glory twice, Rip Van Winkle twice, Mastercraftsman twice and the fact he beat Conduit over an unsuitable distance won’t matter

    …. if one of them win the Arc his form gets a huge boost. So he doesn’t have to run him he can sit back and let the others do the work for him.

    Ony my opinion but a smart man would retrie him asap.

    If memory serves me correctly he beat RVW three times over eight, ten and twelve furlongs.

    #244920
    thehorsesmouth
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5552

    Looks like I got on Fame And Glory just in time, Powers snipped him in to 6/4 today.

    Backed him completely on the basis that it hasn’t stopped raining here since, well since, ehh. . .

    Maybe we’ll get an Indian summer now I’ve backed the FAG :P

    #244922
    Goldikova
    Member
    • Total Posts 1537

    I went in for more 7/4 aswell. It’s not easy running 19 days after your last run, when there’s pacemakers in both races and F&G is fresh. Then there’s the weather factor. If i were John Oxx i would see this race as being too soon. This is STS target though, so the chances are that jesus is telling his weather gods to hit Ireland with dry weather because he knows i’ve backed F&G, and they’re all laughing at me through a telescope.

    #244925
    towerto
    Member
    • Total Posts 92

    fame and glory an absolut cert for me for this race
    sts didnt impress me at all in da juddmonte international

    #244932
    Goldikova
    Member
    • Total Posts 1537

    fame and glory an absolut cert for me for this race

    sts didnt impress me at all in da juddmonte international

    That’s just silly.

    #245752
    yorkshirepudding
    Member
    • Total Posts 608

    Fame And Glory won a terible renewal of the Irish Derby.

    If the ground is fast I expect Sea The Stars send the coolmore slags home with a flea in their ears.

    The Coolmore gagn sent one good horse and a couple of pacemakwrs oo try and run Sea The Stars legs off. The champion feeling the weight of history and the roar of the Yorkshire crowd on his back, the wind blew down from the Yorkshire wolds, the ancient breeding grounds where the original thoroughbreds were first bred, he was in gods own country and the land of his ancestors, the time came too put his marker down, he did so in infactic style smashing the track record.
    STS is faster, calmer and sexier than the coolmore currant bunch…

    Coolmore have not got a horse too match him at the moment, end of.

    #245821
    RedRiot
    Member
    • Total Posts 870

    Fame And Glory won a terible renewal of the Irish Derby.

    So what, he beat them hands and heels, Dylan Thomas won a poor renewal, didn’t stop him winning the Irish Champion did it.

    Just cause you may have poor renewals you can not have soft opinions on the winners if they win as easy as they do.

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