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<br>grimes offers<br>
having run faster over 12 F than any other horse – in the world, I think it was. And that, by some margin, from my own brief form checks of top horses in Europe. In my opinion a giant, in class, evidently, as well as brilliance. <br>
nick mordin also agree with you in the rp weekender saying that falbrav has performed some fo the fastest times over 12f in europe strange for a horse that some claim dosnt stay 12f perhaps its just an excuse for its defeats
for me the top handicapped horses would be
hawk wing
dalakhani
high chapperall
falbrav
how u can state high chapperall should be rated lower than falbrav when he has beat him twice this year and once last year
especially when falbrav 2 best uk performences are based solely around nayef
<br> <br>The all-weather seems to me to be the child of the bookmaking industry – it was originally created and its development has been directed by the big bookmaking firms’ desire to improve their bottom line.
at least someone on this thread can see the wood from the trees<br>
<br>Racing gets 10% in Levy of all gross profit/gross commission revenue earned by bookmakers/betting exchanges from these RR meetings, the same as any other, you can’t just judge its commercial success on gate receipts.
i know that ian but thanks for reminding me
<br> but what it dosnt do (rr) is improve the state of racing
and the more the product deteriorates the less people will bet on it or be attracted to it as a sport which in the long term will reduce betting turnover<br>
<br>ap
i would agree with you 100 per cent it has changed since 1994 the only thing is with regional racing for wolverhampton/southwell its a change for the worse
its a joke
we will have races next for 0-20 rated handicappers
i wouldnt mind it it was completely self financing but before racing gets any cut out of it the bhb has to get back the 25000 they give every meeting
i do hope they dont hold one of these meetings on cup final day im sure attendence will be down at cardiff if they do and betting turnover in general.
the bookies however i note are very happy the way things went i wonder if that is because they see losses or profits from it
<br>400 people attended!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
well that must go some way to showing what the paying public think of this trash
ive heard of funerals with bigger attendences
there scraping the barrel with this im afraid
rather than subsidise wolverhampton perhaps they should build a housing estate over it
<br>hard to chose for me between dalakhani and hawk wing
plumped for dalakhani in the end
<br>as its very hard to win a champion hurdle i the first year of hurdling only royal gait did it and he had flat racing speed
you really are having to look at last years novices/handicappers and i agree with maurice on all known evidence rooster will have to run well below form
of last years contender rhinestone has room for improvement but horses that have lost in a ch dont have a good record in going on to win it. he is also contary to some belive not flat bred being by be my native and to me after the way he was campained last year has a lot of learning to do
old vic was very impressive in soft races but it was noted he made jumping errors in some so he has improve in more than one department
back to front may well be a spring horse but even his supreme win will have to be improved on and again the supreme hurdle dosnt generally produce ch winners <br> he may well improve but i think 2nd will be the best he can hope for
<br>a bit late onto this
i think wl was a marvelous horse a pleasure to watch him jumping but he was better on flat tracks there were so many decent horses around in his era
i also think as pipe has been mentioned that the dickensons were marvelous trainers much superior to pipe
i think dawn run was a marvelous horses whom a fatal tragedy took so much away from what could have been learnt about her
i agree with mh in my opinion she was the actual rather then the moral winner of the gc she is crabbed unfairly
in all (or nearly) sports females are given different treatment to the males the mare allowance was not a factor
but dawn runs victory takes nothing away from wayward lads record allthough as someone pointed out he was never rated a champion
whether night nurse was better or not than dawn run (he was) it really has nothing to do with the argument as to whether dawn run was or wasnt the moral winner (he wasnt he won fairly)
and ian the horses u list as being better than dawn run (which i agree with) were also better than wayward lad.
finally some postscripts to other horses mentioned
l,escargot had the unusual distinction of being awarded the title of united states champion jumping horse
i also take the oppotunity to quote from clivex<br>
I also the belive that best Mate is right up there now
do i misunderstand you or are u trying to insinuate that best mate is somewhere near to arkle (or flyingbolt) in his achievements if so forget it dont even go there
wayward lad in summary was a fine horse and a great credit to his connections a pleasure to watch<br> <br>
<br>
<br>alex bird had a wonderful eye for getting photofinishes correct and won a lot of money betting on them
about sadlers wells over 6f be very wary as sw has few winning 2 yo in gb over this distance
<br>venusian
i wasnt around in either 1955 or 1959 so you will be glad to know i cant argue that point with you:biggrin: :biggrin:
i have no doubt either you are correct in those days horses ran on any ground thrown at them but becuase they did this dosnt neccarsarily make it correct.
the thoroughbred is noted as getting weaker by many (but not all) and the horses welfare is taken more seriously these days
but there are plenty of stats showing there is about an equal no of sws that win on ground described as g/s as there are on g/f
<br>ap
i agree that if they did stats for each class of race perhaps they would be more informative. i always use the going in a horses better wins as a guide
however if u take sadlers wells for example and the often stated "they need soft ground" barring the fact that gallileo went well enough on it of course the sire like his adversary darshaan acted very well on fast ground in fact his only time out the first 2 was the arc on heavy ground (allthough he may have beeen over the top then) there is nothing particularly genetic about going requirements.
monkey
firstly from memory i think he did
and secondly you are probably correct in that as many storm cats are trained in ireland and kingmambos in france the soft/heavy stats may be distorted
tdk
funny how t morris has to dig back to 1955 dosnt he realise things such as horse welfare have moved on since then
mind you reading some of his articles perhaps not
sal
a good point re watching the horses going down being advantagous allthough even then there are still exceptions i know from an interview with j macgrath he dosnt go for this theory anyway and some horses described as having a high legs action still seem to go well on the soft
<br>j mcgrath(timeform one) disagrees with that aiden
its a difficult subject going the best method is to look at the actual record of the horse under discussion
for debutantes it is very much subjective
indian ridges are supposed to prefer cut but snow ridge seemed to act on fast on saturday.
i find stamina is more inherent than going preferences
<br>pegwell bay
going preferences are not genetic tony morris a few weeks before the closure of the sporting life listed the top 50 sires with wins over firm g/f good g/s h a/w
only 4 of them showed any marked preference the rest were fairly evenly matched
the only 2 goings which threw up any preferences were heavy and all weather some like royal acadamy taking to all weather quite well and some like sadlers wells not getting any results
sadlers wells also have a poor record on ground described as heavy he has a far better record on ground described as firm
mtoto was one sire whom had a marked preference for good or faster
silver hawk was about equal split between the range g/f to g/s
jagger by linamix won on saturday on fast he also won york on g/f
<br>i agree horses were much better named in the past
some of these arabic names whilst they might have wonderful meanings can be a rightmouthful if you are trying to get a wedge on in a hurry:biggrin: :biggrin:
also in agreement that numerous comptons bollins and names that refer to the owners occupation become very tedious
the americans and the irish and jumps owners seem to name their horses very well
as for the flat highclere cheverly and judmonte as mesh mentions are very good sheik mo is good when giving european names.
i like the cat names for balydoyle (there again i like cats) at least they have being offspring of storm cat some relevence
<br>ian
at the risk of turning this into another oft debate
aa i dont see the logic if we cant sustain the courses we have now in adding further courses as they will have to be paid for
bb many of us whom object to the oft ruling is not on the basis that all courses will be saved in the future economically viable or not. the objection is made on the basis that we want all interested parties to have their say in racing so they can come up with a coherent plan for the future. rather then leaving it the hands of one interested (bookies) so they can repair the damage to their bottom line caused by the exchanges by getting their product (horse racing) at a cheaper price
so i dont find it odd at all
in fact i think it makes economic sense to close some courses but not 29 which i think is the figure someone banded about (i wont remind you that i think ,but not certain ,it was in one of your postings:biggrin: :biggrin: )
again i will say that in my belief racing should be lead by a central body which serves all parties interestss and not just one.
and of course this central body with a leader capable of negotiating with all representatives would have to make economic decisions one of which is that in this day and age 59 courses are unsustainable
and yes if there are courses which in general do not sustain support from either spectator. owner,breeder, punter for what ever reason then they will have to go
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