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<br>robbo
landing light has had 2 races his first about 10 days before valirimix and his last was on dec26th hardly on the go or over raced . and if the going was not so bad last saturday they may well have run valirimix.
after all some of the criticism of isty stems from the fact he has not had a race since his debut this year
<br>sal,
i am surpised
are you alluding to the fact that the law abiding country alliance and the tally ho brigade will be breaking the law if they dont have their own way i thought from their outporings they were law abiding citizens and it was their opponents whom had no respect for the law.<br> <br> im sure there may be a lot of administration involved in the kennels etc after hunting is outlawed but again i feel sure that for a law abiding group of people whose only love is for the countryside it will not be such a problem that will need police or other officers of the goverment to stand over.
re would an old woman be prosecuted whose spaniel caught…………. i think this is a red herring would she be prosecuted if her spaniel bit the postman hardly likely and not really in the grand scheme of fox killing .
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<br>colin
i think as i already pointed out the change on going came whenn he returned from france that is when i would suggest his bleeding problems may have started.
i agree with your comments concerning his performences in good or soft ground but would point out that they are also mainly in small fields .
there is plenty of stable confidence and with the way rodock and copeland have performed in the past it is hardly suprising they prefer valirimix.
re the express it may have been the going but could well have been a combination of the 2 after all his form so far is on either flat galloping tracks or at least easy tracks with an uphill finish sandown.
there is one other question as well last year his jumping was sketchy and at newbury it was clearly improved but if u take sir talbot out of the equation (he never competed) and allow hll ran a poor race which according to chaseform he ran 17lb below his ascot running it was a 2 horse race and tff is not much better than a mere handicapper so his jumping was unlikely to have been put to the gun so to speak.
it is going to be an interesting ch this year and in my opinion it is going to be a close run race
<br>adrian
on my part class dosnt come into the factor
the fact is sure animals kill each other that is nature hunting them down with packs of dogs and whetever other aids used is sport and that is cruel and not quite the same
i agree it is wrong to let wild mink out they have no natural predator in our enviroment but on the other hand why are the mink here ????
just one reason some oversized womens vanity and before u jump in about leather leather is a byproduct ie the pig/cow /sheep is killed for food as well.
i have no doubt that bear baiting cock fighting etc had their apologists as well (all of which no doubt appealed at the time to the same supporters of fox hunting)
<br>rory
no it would save us from future harry secombes;) mind you how would they staff the bars at sandown??
sorry i meant in england and wales
<br>robbo
i share your concerns about society but not about protecting the rights of the tally ho brigade of fox killers and pheasent shooters to continue this barbaric sport (all said and done they do it becuase they enjoy it)
and perhaps if the tally ho brigade have nothing better to do than chase foxes/hares etc they could spend an equal amount of time on more practical issues that are of benifit to society such as volountry work for the disabled etc u never know they may even find it as rewarding as killing foxes/birds/deer not withstanding the numorous pets that they have also killed
and one other point to the question is why is the bhb acting as a post office for the countryside alliance in posting their circulars to race horse owners? hardly the way to attract new interest in the sport
its the 21st century get rid of this sport here and wales as well
<br>robbo
noel chance is an excellent trainer whom looks after his horses at all times and i do hope your right about a full recovery but his legs will be tested far more in the gc than either at wincanton or in training gallops
the true test has yet to come
<br>robbo
when he was second at ascot although he didnt stay he did run well and the ground was noted by chaseform as g/f good in places and of course the third horse ( a stayer) that day franked the form (albeit on different ground)
if u check his record whilst he was with pipe he ran well on soft he went to france and raced for douman and ran reasonable on soft but if you check his record since then it is noticable that as soon as the word soft appears in the going description his performences deteroriate.
it has already been stated that he is a bleeder and generally bleeders go well fresh
and as far as i am aware bleeding is a condition that develops rather like things develop on human beings ie horses are not born bleeders (someone with more experience on this subject may correct me) but it seems when he retuned from france he must have developed it as his performences changed thereafter.
when he ran fresh at wincanton after a 3 month break he won and then after a month he came 2nd to isty again the word fresh appears.
if you look at his recent record he has the profile of a horse liking small fields and good or fast ground which he got as ascot but didnt at newbury (word soft in going) and soft going affects bleeders (its harder on the lungs)
i also note at kempton he was tongue tied perhaps the connections noticed something in his running at newbury and again the word soft was missing from the going description
yes he is a young horse but a horse with problems that will probably always hold him back (unfortuantly) and i dont think chasing will be the key to him
u say it could be argued that cheltenham is his favorite track whilst neither ascot or newbury is cheltenham at least ascot is similar in having an uphill finish barring the fact his victory was at wincanton a rh flat track (ie after his problems)
of course it is not essential for a bleeder to run fresh genrally accepted by many trainers as the thing to do as it doesnt mean they (being the horses)will bleed like clockwork every time in fact they may feel pain and turn in a poor performence to prevent further pain and bleeding.
the horse is consistent but notibally in small fields.<br>
<br>be wary of copeland he won what in my opinion a lower class than normal tote tactically with the appallingly ridden proffessional loser rooster booster being given to say the least an injudicous ride.
compare this years field with last years and u may see what i mean.
copeland may have improved but he was flattered to win so far he is short of grp 1 class and may find the handicapper will now have him by the balls
as esc says it seems that the victory was well plotted up
regarding valirimix yes agood horse may be but in my mind some of the form used to boost him involves a lot of proffessional losers like rb tff and dodgy horses like hll
i agree landing light will be the one for the ch.
and before anyone says it ;) raceform rated hll performence against valirimix being 17lb worse than his performence against barraccouda a race which actually fitted hll s profile (going fresh on fast ground)
<br> re hll i would be a little worried about his reliabilty as a yardstick as he is a noted bleeder. and of course soft ground places more emphasis on the lungs so there is always the possibility he can chuck one here or there
<br>thanks for pointing that out, am suprised the rp made no mention of this . but henderson dosnt seem worried and it seems now an even better performence
<br>im with esc on this one nearly all past winners of the gc have one thing in common they have won at 3m there must be a reason for this.
best mate neither runs like he wants 3m2f and to make matters worse for him he is certainly not bred to go 3m yet alone 3m2f
gus
u will see better jumping from bacchanal in the gc especially when he jumps the last and in with a chance
esc
sorry esc i forgot to type it i was actually referring to the word unlucky in your prior comment (the word might not being as emphatic as unlucky) however a different summary to perspective whilst acknowledging his poor jumping "briefly looked a danger until finding no extra" but never claiming his jumping affected the result. similar to chaseform (they did comment on what a wonderfull novice chaser he would make)
still it would be boring if all had the same opinion
<br>escorial
"the concensous of opinion was that valrimix would have beaten landing light both times"
sorry but i have not heard that before neither at sandown in discussions on various forums and nor did commentators in chaseform or perspective claim this or from memory did either ratings review or the rp race reviewer claim this
he did make mistakes but one should not go overboard
<br>elderberry
yes i am sure you are correct he won in a hurdle race as ascot at quite a good price i cant recall the name of the horse it was gambled on earlier in the season and fell at cheltenham the horse is still in training with len lungo (or at least a well known trainer up north)
elderberry
 the excuse after the  charlie hall was the ground  in the aon  sw had his ground and lost  the form is not comparable  (being run on different ground) but now nicholls has found another excuse for  a defeat of his horse which never looked like winning and yet didnt set a fast enough pace to benifit bacchanal
sw has also gone well fresh in the past he won first time out last year and the year before if i recall so the excuse about first run since the ch dosnt add up to me.<br>also sw best runs in his career have been at newbury in the hennessy meeting and in last years aon chase so with ground and track i would say sw has put in a better performence that in the ch<br>
 bacchanal needs to improve his jumping but i feel with the extra training and a stronger pace he will
(Edited by prince regent at 1:39 pm on Feb. 13, 2002)
