February 15, 2002 at 09:46 #4151
Don’t they shoot grouse in Scotland? I believe they breed them to shoot them.February 15, 2002 at 10:02 #98233DaylightMember
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Or drink them, eh Esc!February 15, 2002 at 10:03 #98234SmithyMember
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You don’t live in the city by any chance do you Razeen?February 15, 2002 at 10:06 #98235
So they breed grouse, let them free on a certain day, shoot them and (some) eat them.
I’ve heard this called a sport by some people.
Maybe I should start a petition to get it banned.
No, i don’t think i’ll bother. To be honest, is it all that important? Surely a more important thing to debate is stopping child abuse or violent crime. Why is parliament wasting time debating foxhunting when there are far more important things to discuss.February 15, 2002 at 10:35 #98240
We are tackling foxhunting AHEAD of far more important matters.
I went to a school where disabled kids were based. I’ve seen people look at those kids and insult them…because they are disabled. Stopping that kind of predjudice is 100 times more important that stopping a fox being hunted.
Foxhunting should be well down on the governments list of priorities…but it isn’t. As humans, we must makes sure we survive. We have to stop illness and we have to help people live together without wanting to kick each others heads in (ie: racism).
Surely we can debate moral issues like foxhunting when we’ve sorted out things that ARE far more important.
Yes we can debate foxhunting but not ahead of more important things.February 15, 2002 at 11:23 #98242
I’m just voicing my opinion, not telling people to do anything. Sorry if i gave that impression. <br>Genocide overseas? That’s highly important…except i was talking about issues in our country and how important they are.
What is wrong with someone talking about making fences smaller or less stiff? Nothing at all. But if MP’s started debating that in the houses of parliament it would seem strange and a bit of a waste of time.
People on here debate horseracing as it is something they enjoy. Again, we aren’t going to go and talk about the Champion Hurdle winner in parliament are we? No we’re not because they have more important things to discuss than Istabraq.
If they wanted to make it legal again they’d be going around in circles wouldn’t they? What would be the point of that? More valuable time wasted. <br>February 15, 2002 at 12:11 #98243
i share your concerns about society but not about protecting the rights of the tally ho brigade of fox killers and pheasent shooters to continue this barbaric sport (all said and done they do it becuase they enjoy it)
and perhaps if the tally ho brigade have nothing better to do than chase foxes/hares etc they could spend an equal amount of time on more practical issues that are of benifit to society such as volountry work for the disabled etc u never know they may even find it as rewarding as killing foxes/birds/deer not withstanding the numorous pets that they have also killed
and one other point to the question is why is the bhb acting as a post office for the countryside alliance in posting their circulars to race horse owners? hardly the way to attract new interest in the sport
its the 21st century get rid of this sport here and wales as wellFebruary 15, 2002 at 12:17 #98244roryParticipant
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Get rid of Wales?
That’s a little drastic, isn’t it? :biggrin:February 15, 2002 at 12:39 #98245
Where did i say vandalism or a local shop owner running a dogfighting show is small change to me?
These are the kinds of things i’m talking about! The above things should be discussed rather than foxhunting.
PR – good point about the fox hunters. Seems odd that all they have the time to do is hunt foxes.
I’m not saying it isn’t a cruel "sport", just that there are more important things to discuss.
The BHB wanted to show that their are groups opposed to racing and that their concerns matter. Animal Aid are one of the groups the BHB are allowing to post their circulars to racehorse owners – that is crazy. Animal Aid are extremists, they want racing as a WHOLE banned.
Razeen, there are violent crime issues to discuss such as muggings, rape, mobile phone theft but there are social issues to discuss too…racism for instance. These are more important than fox hunting.
PR – yep, the tally ho brigade are being protected by the law (well, not in Scotland anymore) which seems odd because as you said, they aren’t offering much to society.February 15, 2002 at 12:40 #98246
no it would save us from future harry secombes;) mind you how would they staff the bars at sandown??
sorry i meant in england and walesFebruary 15, 2002 at 13:02 #98248Scottish JamieParticipant
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Rob you are right on the money with this one. As you may guess I live in Scotland and the general opinion is that this bill is an utter waste of time and money. As in England this bill was brought in by a couple of do-gooding, no-name Labour backbenchers trying to make a name for themselves. Who gives a damn about banning foxhunting if you have relatives waiting for healthcare or children needing education. Money could be better spent.
Lets face it, if they were hunting rats would anyone say a thing ? This is just the start, what will they ban next, angling ? surely thats cruel, shooting ? well yes must be but thats how they propose to control the fox population now so it must be cruel to shoot a pheasant or grouse but ok to shoot a fox. Then what will they go after, horse racing ? isn’t it cruel to make a horse run and jump for sport and whip it when it wants to slow down. I don’t believe in any of these things but there are a significant number of ill informed individuals in this country who would be delighted to see just that happen and now we’ve opened the door for them. The fact is that the human race has always ‘used’ animals whether for food or work or pleasure and the press coverage and political weight fox hunting recieves is way out of proportion to its impact on our lives. :angry:February 15, 2002 at 13:08 #98249AdrianParticipant
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Whats all this Tally Ho brigade business?<br>I hunt foxes in the winter and mink in the summer but do it as a hobby on Saturdays. I work hard the rest of the time and it seems to me there is some perceived class hatrid at work here. It certainly can’t be with respect to the packs I hunt with as there are very few snobby sorts out with us.<br>I hunt foxes for the love of the ride and to support the hunt which does a good job. Only last week we despatched a fox which probably killed all the chickens and ducks at a nearby farm. The hunt also works hard to preserve the coverts and hedges around here – making the countryside a better place.<br>With regard to mink they were let out by well meaning do gooders and now they are killing our indigenous river wildlife. I consider it a good ecologoical thing to get rid of them as they should not be there in the first place. What would be the alternative if hunting is banned here – to let mink kill all our voles, amphibians, fish etc?February 15, 2002 at 13:31 #98250
on my part class dosnt come into the factor
the fact is sure animals kill each other that is nature hunting them down with packs of dogs and whetever other aids used is sport and that is cruel and not quite the same
i agree it is wrong to let wild mink out they have no natural predator in our enviroment but on the other hand why are the mink here ????
just one reason some oversized womens vanity and before u jump in about leather leather is a byproduct ie the pig/cow /sheep is killed for food as well.
i have no doubt that bear baiting cock fighting etc had their apologists as well (all of which no doubt appealed at the time to the same supporters of fox hunting)February 15, 2002 at 17:27 #98252SalMember
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Raz, I think you missed a valid point made by Rob. Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â It isn’t just the waste of time in Parliament passing this type of legislation, it is then also the effort and expense involved in policing and implementing its results. Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
If all kennels, hunt packs and various societies that are involved in ‘hunting with dogs’ have to be outlawed, this takes a large amount of administration. Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â The legislation for this is so unwieldy (do you prosecute an old lady whose spaniel catches a rabbit?) means there are many loopholes and the law is ultimately unstable. Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
Just because the law has been supposedly passed does not mean the end of the issue – and in the meantime much public service money will be used to enforce a law that is not wanted by the most important people (yes, people, not animals) that it affects.
Are the police (particularly in the poorly serviced rural areas) not better deployed in protecting citizens from crime rather than investigating whether a farmer has used a natural, darwinian method of removing a vermin problem? Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
I think the modern world is in danger of disappearing up its own moral backside.February 15, 2002 at 17:56 #98254
i am surpised
are you alluding to the fact that the law abiding country alliance and the tally ho brigade will be breaking the law if they dont have their own way i thought from their outporings they were law abiding citizens and it was their opponents whom had no respect for the law.<br> <br> im sure there may be a lot of administration involved in the kennels etc after hunting is outlawed but again i feel sure that for a law abiding group of people whose only love is for the countryside it will not be such a problem that will need police or other officers of the goverment to stand over.
re would an old woman be prosecuted whose spaniel caught…………. i think this is a red herring would she be prosecuted if her spaniel bit the postman hardly likely and not really in the grand scheme of fox killing .
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