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  • #92275
    Venusian
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    • Total Posts 1665

    Prince R, I think Tony Morris really meant 1959, not 1955 which was a pretty wet summer as I remember, but anyway, the point he was making was that horses were allowed in the main to run on whatever going nature threw at them, and that that breakdowns weren’t more frequent than they are today.

    So the horse welfare point you make is irrelevant.

    On the matter of inherited goping preferences, while there isn’t a "going gene", many stallions pass on combinations of characteristics which predispose their offspring to liking, or not liking, certain underfoot conditions.

    The reason that Sadler’s Wells sires so may horses that like a little bit of cut in the going is that he tends to pass on a slightly rounded action and a certain lightness of bone – put together, these are features which will inhibit a horse’s ability ot show its best form on a firm surface.<br>

    (Edited by Venusian at 9:46 pm on Sep. 30, 2003)

    #92277
    prince regent
    Member
    • Total Posts 221

    <br>venusian

    i wasnt around in either 1955 or 1959  so you will be glad to know i cant argue that point with you:biggrin: :biggrin:

    i have no doubt either you are correct  in those days horses ran on any ground thrown at them  but becuase they did this dosnt neccarsarily make it correct.

       the thoroughbred is noted as getting weaker by many (but not all)  and   the horses welfare is  taken more seriously these days  

     but there are plenty of stats showing there is about an equal no of sws that win on ground  described as g/s  as there are on g/f

     

     

    #92279
    johngringo
    Member
    • Total Posts 89
    • Alex Bird proved that small hooves were a positive trait in heavy ground, his theory being that they were easier to pull out.
    • My own researches into sire stats suggest that the going suitability is mostly determined by the horses action, but a horses action usually changes with the pace it is required to maintain, and the state of its muscle developement.
    • A Sadlers Wells 2yo will win a 6f gd fm with an action different to that it will win a 12f gd sft one with a couple of years later. Which is probably why he is regarded as the greatest stallion currently standing.
    • Going traits are difficult to decyfer but if they mirror distance traits then the sires importance seems to diminish with distance run in the same proportion as the dam-sires increases. On the flat that means that the sire gives the best clues, but in NH (jumping ability aside) I think the dam-sire is more revealing.

    (Edited by johngringo at 10:41 pm on Sep. 30, 2003)

    #92282
    johngringo
    Member
    • Total Posts 89
    • Effects of Alcohol
    • Reflecting on my impulsive last post on this thread I now unsure that it was Alex Bird who was the heavy ground bettor. Surely he was the photo finish optical illusion originator? I now think I should be paying homage to Phil Bull, am I right ?

     

    #92285
    prince regent
    Member
    • Total Posts 221

    <br>alex bird had a wonderful eye  for getting photofinishes correct and won a lot of money betting on them

    about sadlers wells over 6f  be very wary  as sw has few winning 2 yo  in gb  over this distance

    #92286
    Venusian
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1665

    Alex Bird was the first person in racing to understand, and to profit from, the optical illusion that exists when you see two objects, in this case horses, running past you it appears that the object furthest away is in front.

    Armed with this knowledge, Bird disciplined himself to watch just the line, and not the horses moving in his peripheral vision.

    He won vast amounts of money on betting on photo finishes – for several years these winnings probably exceeded what he won from "normal" betting.

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