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Bogside, I correspond with Ian on a daily basis on YM. I have often made suggestions to him about moving his exchange along faster. I have each time recieved a rocket up my a**e from him, as he would prefer to grow slowly safely and make sure no one, himself or the punter is at risk. In terms of feeling my money is safer, then B+L is IMO even safer than BF. The reason that the markets liquidity and betting activity are slow is exactly because each and every position you see on B+L is a clients position. Ian nor anyone of the owners/staff of B+L place any positions on the exchange. Nor more importantly will ever do.<br>Your critism of Ian and B+L is unwarrented and very unjust IMO.
Quite simply SO made markets liquid by playing them selves a bit like a bookie. Its quite easy to do you open an account as acustomer and play in the markets, its an direct way of borrowing. The trouble is then that there is a hole in the "ring fenced" account. Ie all the customers money less whatever they have squandered. I am not stating facts here just possibilities.
Backandlay nor betfair do this, clients money is treated with respect ie it is not their money. All they do is redistribute it accordingly. Taking commision as required.
We need three or four liquid exchanges, to ensure healthy competition and for forwarding of the business. Betfair may not be the biggest exchange in 5 years time and may go to the stock exchange at which point business men will take over they will be similar to the bookies. Ohterwise all the eggs will be in one basket, a very precarious situation as the BHB is finding out.
Furthermore it is good to have competition and
Value opposing Kandidate in the first at Lingfield today 1/2 fav never having run on sand nor winning a race.
Not Value backing an evens or below runner in a handicap.
Value getting the best price you can.
Not value getting the worst value you can.
Value winning
Not value losing
Value making a profit overall
Not value making a loss
Hope that clears it up.
Wots all this union stuff got to with it anyway, is there a national union of foxes no-one told me about?
On the matter of the lower upper classes going hunting, it makes no difference what class you are, you just need to be able to afford it.
<br>But it will be entertaining if a hunt goes ahead and the police try to stop it. The image of the country bobby (I know they do not exist anymore) standing with his hand in the stop gesture, as a demented fox goes by, followed 40 or so slobbering fox hounds, after which a load of maniacs hanging on to horses for their dear life is one I would like to see.
And after in court the defendants solictor, well M’lud my clients gather every so often in this field for a medieaval Peagent on this occaision the dogs F***ed off and we were trying to catch them.<br>
(Edited by Dungheap at 11:35 pm on Sep. 15, 2004)
So let’s have a closer look at monsiuer Reynard.
This is the animal who HUNTS for a living, who and I talk from experience who will not steal on chicken but will kill the lot, leaving a pile of headless bloody bodies. it is ok treating animals as our equals, but the animals do not give a monkeys toss.<br> I have no problem with hunting though if the fox is given the chance of survival, as soon as the shovels come out thats where I draw the line.
But we live in a democracy and that is that, hunting with dogs will become illegal
I bet the packs of dogs will survive.
I bet the hunts will survive.
Dave there is a difference, according to the dictionary.
Best mate<br>I agree with you sentiment generally. <br>But I would imagine most of the shrewd punters are already there. Wether or not the internet is in all houses make no difference as the majority of punters have jobs and cannot wager during the day.
The danger IMO in all of this is as mentioned the exchanges being "gelded" ie only licensed people being allowed to lay.<br>At the moment the exchanges are recieving bad publicity for the actual act of the fiddled lay and the availabilty for it to be done.<br>the poll run by c4 was crass as the majority of C4’s audience are c1 and c2 people least likey to have the internet, credit facilities and understanding of forming a book etc. Some are hostile because they do not simply understand exchanges.
<br>But the news of the world used the poll today as an example against exchanges, as others will do.
bigtony it also is not right to take any money at any price if your a bookmaker with a permit as happened before, if you knew a horse was going to lose. good luck with those demons:)
Dave the question asked is Approve/disapprove exactly as asked on the morning line yesterday. Which is different to disagree.
This poll is now the second most voted in of the current threads in horseracing on TRF.
Grasshopper, I think Davies won people already into exchanges, but basically the fundemtal advantage of exhanges has not been pointed out and needs to be. Ie value. Also many betting shop punters see commission as a tax, nor can they calculate odds or really understand what the book makers %age is. <br> I think frankly his arguements went staight over the C4 average viewers heads. With adverse publicity like this, exchanges may be see as a thorn in too many peoples sides. I am sure the ABB and the bookies will quickly use the C4 poll as an argueing tool. Kevin Darleys, outburst yeaterday for instance was another bad one, because in effect he cannot use exchanges, nor can the people in the circle in which he moves and is therefore not a good spokeperson on this issue. Some of the bigger respected punters need to make them selves available IMO.<br>As most of our representatives in the media world, are very subjective (McCirrick et al), I suspect the arguement is being lost even if correct Because. <br>I believe that with or without exchanges there will always be someone who will try a fast one.
The two arguments that need to be pushed are value and competition to the traditional bookmaker IMO, because the average non punting person in the street sees ALL of racing as "bent" and an illness on par with Alcoholism. Many of them know a person who has a gambling "problem", as soon as they see something that is portrayed as being more corrupt than b4 even if it is not, they assume it is a bad thing.<br>Taking that with a governemnt that in most cases follows the populist route and there are dangers for exchanges IMO. <br>Another point on the C4 discussion, is that Dennis really could not care one way or another as punters will always back on course, so for him standing up for the punter was some of the best self publicity he could achieve. It is the strangly quiet PR departments of the big three, plus the other high street chains, that is worrying what are they up to?
I have decided I will take the result of this poll and email it to channel 4 racing at 9 am on monday.
Having re read all this again and some of the airy-fairy views expressed.<br> The biggest problem with racing as I have intimated before is the joint problem, that racing is in some mystified old time warp, with hat doffing jockeys, horses withers and some old geezers in triblies. <br>Until stewards on course, have a live video of each and every race, this video fed straight through to portman square. Jockeys trainers and owners, should face an imediate ban, similar to Rio Ferdinand for altrications against rules and a life ban for a second offence <br>Trainers submit any known problems or issues that could affect the animal before races. <br>As part of their right to use the product, exchanges and bookies should report suspisious betting patterns.<br>In part professionalise a mega million pound sport. <br>The jockey club and the BHB should be populated by both sides horse and non horse minded people.<br>If I stood to make a couple ten grand, from a shady operation, I would soon reconsider if my livlehood for ever was taken away.<br>Yes there will be court cases and they must be endured that is how our legal system is structured, but in the long term, we have all witnessed blatent non triers and we should not have to phone the racing post jockey club, they should see it and deal with it.
A judge or juror in any case usually has to declare an interest, and will usually stand down, how can the jockey club and its stewards, try precepts that they have in many cases a vested interest.
Also big winnings should be held by the bookies/exchanges for a period in case of any fiddling suspision maybe 24hrs.
THE CHANGE MUST START AT THE TOP. So that all realise that cheating Just ain’t worth the bother. They are going to get banned or not get their ill planned profits.
For all the paranoid, where are the famous welsh and scottish horses? I want to know being neither a bog arab or a toffee nosed roast beef.
