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Another can of worms has just been opened

Home Forums Archive Topics Another can of worms has just been opened

Viewing 14 posts - 76 through 89 (of 89 total)
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  • #93581
    Zorro
    Member
    • Total Posts 472

    Gus, the point about the points:cool:   is that they wouldn’t be given for deliberate wrongdoing – even though some might think, very reasonably, that this was the case. They would be given for incompetence – just like most points on a driving licence.<br> Mess up three times on a big drifter? No-one’s saying you’re a crook. Just: "Bye bye moron. You’re not fit to ride".

    Who’s supposed to be my favourite jockey, by the way? If you mean Kieren Fallon, I don’t think he’d get many points. You may sneer, but how many of his drift markedly anyway?<br> And yes, I have heard of Ballinger Ridge.

    #93582
    ricky lake
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2358

    Well said Paul , the important thing here is to keep this momentum going , the jockey club are  mostly well meaning but inept , bhb dont give a toss about races  or punters , all they want is revenue

    We should be thankful to you for at least placing the issue in the public domain , my fear is however that all will go quiet and racing will trundle on until the next crisis, the next exposee, or scandal

    why not have prifessional stewards and face it now ??

    Damn Paul you are forcing me to buy that awful paper again <br>#

    Ricky

    #93583
    Zorro
    Member
    • Total Posts 472

    Perfect TDN.:cool:

    #93584
    guskennedy
    Member
    • Total Posts 759

    But isn’t that more or less what they’ve tried to do with Bradley? Result: court proceedings.

    #93585
    ricky lake
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2358

    Gus , you are right , court cases would be many

    Great idea though

    there is no chance in real life to all parties signing up to it , and to make it compulsury would be challenged in the courts , and inded would undermine the jockey club even further <br>Lets give Pro stewards a go , and I dont mean hiring some more ex policemen !!!

    Ricky

    #93586
    Seagull
    Member
    • Total Posts 1708

    I was going not to post anything else on this matter.<br>However I was at Fontwell when the Ice Saint race occured and the stewards only announced that there was going to be an enquiry around 10 minutes after the race had ended. The on course stewards saw nothing wrong with the race at the time and it took a phone call from the jockey club to inform them re the betting patterns on the race told to them by betfair.<br>These Qs are still not clear.<br>Why does a person not actually connected with racing have around 10 jockeys he could call up on his phone?<br>Why did the same person visit the stable 2 days before the Red Lancer race when that horse drifted alarmingly on the exchanges and run so badly?<br>Why was the trainer of Red Lancer still associating with a warned off person ie Chris Coleman who was also a contact of Brian Wright?<br>Why did Graham Bradley take jockeys for a freebie to Spain and to stay in the company of Brian Wright when he was living there?<br> I think even Tony Mc Coy went once.<br>

    #93587
    Zorro
    Member
    • Total Posts 472

    Thankyou for that Seagull, and for starting this debate.

    Gus, surely members of any club could be suspended by that club – particularly if they had signed an agreement to abide by the committee’s decisions as a condition of membership.

    #93588
    guskennedy
    Member
    • Total Posts 759

    I don’t think you would even get it off the ground, Zorro. It would be argued that it’s a restraint of trade to require an individual to belong to such an organisation and to enter into such an agreement in order to earn his living. Any decision which prevents an individual from working is going to be capable of review by the courts.

    #93592
    guskennedy
    Member
    • Total Posts 759

    You obviously don’t know too many lawyers, TDK.

    #93593
    richard
    Participant
    • Total Posts 138

    Also think Zorro’s idea is pretty good. It could help  to target specifically the most seriously crooked jocks and trainers, who after all are known to the authorities.<br>As to court cases, not sure about that. Would serial perpretators want  go into the withess box and face a question along the lines of,

    Have you ever been involved in fixing a race Mr/Ms….?

    Whichever answer was given, they’d be in a fix. Courts take a dim view of perjury.

    Zorro, if I may say so, thought the way you drew attention in today’s RP to Turn Around’s latest run was superbly done. Please keep it up.<br>richard

    #93596
    Zorro
    Member
    • Total Posts 472

    It wouldn’t be restraining them from riding or training racehorses – just from running them in races that were organised by the club (or Club).:cool:

    #93598
    richard
    Participant
    • Total Posts 138

    Also think Zorro’s idea is pretty good. It could help  to target specifically the most seriously crooked jocks and trainers, who after all are known to the authorities.<br>As to court cases, not sure about that. Would serial perpretators want  go into the withess box and face a question along the lines of,

    Have you ever been involved in fixing a race Mr/Ms….?

    Whichever answer was given, they’d be in a fix. Courts take a dim view of perjury.

    Zorro, if I may say so, thought the way you drew attention in today’s RP to Turn Around’s latest run was superbly done. Please keep it up.<br>richard

    #93599
    Glenn
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1981

    Quote: from richard on 11:42 am on June 28, 2004[br]<br>Whichever answer was given, they’d be in a fix. Courts take a dim view of perjury.<br>

    If only that were so. In the Top Cees case, Thommo and Fallon attested to mutually exclusive evidence. Clearing one of them was lieing yet no charges were brought.

    The problem with the idea of not issuing licences to suspect characters is that you have to prove involvement otherwise it’s a restraint of trade. The FA could ban Rio Ferdinand because he was culpable for not taking the test. Proving that a jockey is related to an exchange drift is a different matter entirely though not impossible.

    #93600
    Dungheap
    Member
    • Total Posts 113

    Having re read all this again and some of the airy-fairy views expressed.<br> The biggest problem with racing as I have intimated before is the joint problem, that  racing is in some mystified old time warp, with hat doffing jockeys, horses withers and some old geezers in triblies. <br>Until stewards on course, have a live video of each and every race, this video fed straight through to portman square.  Jockeys trainers and owners, should face an imediate ban, similar to Rio Ferdinand for altrications against rules and a life ban for a second offence  <br>Trainers submit any known problems or issues that could affect the animal before races. <br>As part of their right to use the product, exchanges and bookies should report suspisious betting patterns.<br>In part professionalise a mega million pound sport. <br>The jockey club and the BHB should be populated by both sides horse and non horse minded people.<br>If I stood to make a couple ten grand, from a shady operation, I would soon reconsider if my livlehood for ever was taken away.<br>Yes there will be court cases and they must be endured that is how our legal system is structured, but in the long term, we have all witnessed blatent non triers and we should not have to phone the racing post jockey club, they should see it and deal with it.

    A judge or juror in any case usually has to declare an interest, and will usually stand down, how can the jockey club and its stewards, try precepts that they have in many cases a vested interest.

    Also big winnings should be held by the bookies/exchanges for a period in case of any fiddling suspision maybe 24hrs.

    THE CHANGE MUST START AT THE TOP. So that all realise that cheating Just ain’t worth the bother. They are going to get banned or not get their ill planned profits.

Viewing 14 posts - 76 through 89 (of 89 total)
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