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Could it be that the owners changed their minds and decided the horse should go to Epsom?
From what Jim Bolger has said it was his decision, nothing whatsoever to do with the owners.
Either that is the case or Mr Bolger is telling fibs and if he is it hardly does anything other than prove the "attackers" point somewhat regarding Mr Bolger and his alleged contempt for the public. .
Why, whenever I think I’ve hit upon a 25/1 shot with a great chance, does bloody Segal go and put it up too – I’ll jump ship to Strike Up The Band I think.
The clerk of the course at Epsom seemed to think that ground on the fast side of good was entirely possible were the fine weather to continue throughout this morning, so could we see New Approach actually taken back out of the race?
After yesterday’s Coronation antics I’m struggling to work out just how the race will be run which, from a betting point of view, is incredibly irritating. I’ll obviously stick with my 16/1 and 250/1 shots, but how do people see the racing playing out?
Well it’ll be a true run race thats for sure its not going to be steady and won by a horse that doesn’t truely stay.
Hopefully the rages like Maidstone Mixture will stay at the back out the way.
I’d be amazed if one of the O’Brien team doesn’t either force the pace or at least ensure by presense that there is no hanging about. Aidan has a number of runners and he’s not going to want a crawl for his stayers. Bashkirov is all stamina by breeding I’d nominate him to be very much to the fore.
Tartan Bearer and Curtain Call I’d expect to sit just off the pace. Neither should have a worry stamina wise so I can’t see them being excessively held up so too probably King Of Rome. Tajawwed I’d expect to be held up a little more than those two, so too Casual Conquest as both are the type that have an obvious change of gear. Maybe they’ll race Casual Conquest a bit handier? Kandahar Run I expect will be held up, so too Dr Fremantle and Rio De La Plata.
Thats what I expect, we shall see.
Not certain what New Approach and Frozen Fire will be asked to do.
Tartan Bearer for me.
No real confidence though there are seven or eight that I wouldn’t be surprised to see win.
I’m sure me calling him Fat Mac is much worse than utter tosh we heard from him today.
I honestly can’t believe that people actually think he is good for racing. Any non-racing fans that i know are very much of the opinion that he’s a major turn-off, and that view was backed up by what people thought of him on Celeb BB. The quicker he’s removed from tv the better.With respect your circle of friends aren’t the voice of a nation. A dissenting voice is always going to be the loudest voice – thats nature.
Big Mac has done a lot for racing and there are easily as many pro Macians as anti Macians.
Women racegoers the other day on RUK were rushing to have their photo taken with him, he is a "face of racing". Those women were ordinary women in the street not regular racegoers but they were attracted by the image and charisma of John McCririck.
I’d miss him if he were "removed from TV". Racing and C4 in particular suffer from his absense, The Morning Line and C4 betting ring is dull and lifeless without him.
I think Jim Bolger has treated people (particularly punters) with contempt.
This was put to him in a TV interview and Bolger dismissed it. He clearly doesn’t see the "wrong" in what he’s done.
The New Approach / Derby thing has left a bad taste in peoples mouths which is a shame. I just wish Bolger would show a bit of humility and hold his hands up admit he’s handled the situation all wrong. I’m sure that would go a long way and people would be largely forgiving.
However until Jim accepts peoples point against him and realises that they actually have a point the bad taste will linger.
I like Big Mac. At least the guy says what he thinks and doesn’t just say what he’s supposed to say like some sort of puppet.
I don’t agree with everything he says by any means but the idea that he is bad for racing I think is totally untrue.
I find him funny at times. Maybe some people are guilty of taking him too seriously?
I’d rather have Big Mac than practically any of the remainder of the channel 4 team, Richard Hoiles and Simon Holt excepted.
Not even in the frame.
The authorities need to look at this race and the running of Sagara. I cannot believe that all is right here.
Suroor was interviewed before the race saying the horse had shown them "nothing" and would "need the race". Also, Goodwood is a quirky track that Sagara wouldn’t have encountered [or anything like it] before. His overall profile wouldn’t suggest that a steadily run 1m4f round Goodwood would be up his street. Plus as has been said previously, he’s a lazy bugger. I should think Cup races will be the future for him.
Thanks for the info mate.
Ian, I’m normally pretty vocal when it comes to integrity but I honestly cant see anything too unusual with the race tonight.
The same thing seems to have happened with Literato. At Longchamp a few weeks ago he was a shadow of the horse he was last year.
Their not machines, it happens.
I’m sure it does, of course, but shouldn’t someone be looking into it or should it just be accepted without question? Thats the point I’m trying to get at.
If we just accept everything isn’t that an open invitation for "anything goes?".
If we want the public to have confidence in the integrity of the sport then the running of Sagara really should be looked into by the authorities
The numerous doubts expressed in this thread, the matter of the jockey bookings, his tissue price… all these were plainly there for anyone to take into account when evaluating the likely outcome.
What else would you have "the authorities" (whoever you mean by that) look into? And who do you think should pay for any such inquiry? What is this "public" that’s always being invoked, and why do you think you speak for it? Have you sometimes reflected, that in a society (and with a sport) already so beset by checks and balances, maybe these constant calls for inquiries into this, that and the other might tend to kill rather than cure the things we love?
The glorious thing about Racing is the uncertainty (c.f. The Oaks today) … or should we also clamour for an inquiry into why a twice-raced, 33-1 pony-sized outsider was allowed to win a classic? Skullduggery perhaps?? Or an Aidan O’Brien conspiracy???
The Oaks is a different case entirely. It is made up of three year old fillies untried largely, untested open to whatever improvement.
You get strange results. Look at the turn around between Voy Por Ustedes and Master Minded at Aintree. I can accept that – both top class horses, the ground, the track, the distance etc.
Tonight though its clearly different. Here was a horse that has finished close up to the very best horses in Europe, running at its trip, on ground its fine with against horses rated more than ten lengths its inferior and it couldn’t even manage to put in anything of a challenge. Had Dylan Thomas run the same race tonight would everyone have just accepted it?
I think the authorities (whoever are employed to look into "strange occurancies") SHOULD be looking into this. That isn’t to say anyone has to charged but the public need confidence in the sport and that includes the Saturday afternoon punter in the street. How are you going to convince them that the game is straight if horses are allowed to get "stuffed" in races three grades lower without it being questioned?
Who pays for it? I find that sort of question largely irrelevant. Who pays for the trial of a mass murderer? No one likes to pay but what is the alternative?
I agree with you to a degree that as a society issue maybe there is too much (for want of a better word) probing, but racing hardly has the best of images. Not only does it have to be straight it has to be seen to be straight.
I repeat I’m not looking for anyone to be held over an open fire but I do think those that are in a position to look into cases should look into this one. To just accept every result (no matter how strange) as the norm surely isn’t the right thing to do if the public is to be re-assured of racings integrity.
Before this race Sagara had such a form advantage over its rivals that it should’ve been an odds on chance. The fact that it wasn’t together with other things leaves the whole issue with a very unsatisfactory look.
I think peoples readiness to accept results without question is something within racing that enables skulduggery to if not thrive at least exist.
Now, I’m not outright accusing anyone of anything but I do think given the horses clear form superiority (nearly a stone), the jockey bookings, the prices the bookies were happy to trade at and the fact that the horse didn’t get competitive at all is a pretty good reason why the authorities should take a look at the horse and the circumstances and not just ignore the issue.
Anyone can make any excuse for any horse to lose any race that isn’t difficult.
If we want the public to have confidence in the integrity of the sport then the running of Sagara really should be looked into by the authorities, thats all I’m saying.
Not even in the frame.
The authorities need to look at this race and the running of Sagara. I cannot believe that all is right here.
Truthfully Ian, I don’t know and haven’t had a bet in the race but if forced to have one, I’d lay him for a place.
Fair enough mate.
Sagara has been gelded which suggests he has been difficult since he last ran in the Arc. Take a look at all of his runs last year and he’s a lazy creature that gives his jockey no assistance. Under such circumstances I imagine he would stink the gallops out at home and wouldn’t go past a 60 rated handicapper if he worked with one. My theory is the horse has probably shown nothing on the gallops at home and that is why Frankie rides him.
I’m not sure either he wasn’t a bit flattered in the Arc too, but even if you take his run at face value, McEvoy and Goodwood don’t strike as the ideal combination to get the best out of him.
Before the race David – Do you think this horse will get beaten tonight?
If it was just his Arc run I’d tend to be a bit cautious of it any horse can run one race above itself but before that he was second to Soldier Of Fortune in his Arc trial. Thats two races on the bounce where his form is (at pound for length terms) ten lengths better than his opposition tonight.
I can see him running below his peak form certainly, even 5 or 6 lengths but he should still theoretically win by three or four lengths.
I simply can’t believe that a horse with his level of form can get beat in a listed race where there is no standout opponent running below his usual grade unless you count Dragon Dancer and to be honest I’d struggle to back Dragon Dancer in any grade.
Of course, 3 lb. difference in the weights. Thanks, Pinza, mystery solved. Same thing doesn’t apply to Sagara/Al Shemali, so what’s going on? Sagara surely should win this.
I know horses aren’t machines etc etc and anything can happen in sport but if Sagara doesn’t win this race tonight I’d want to hear a pretty good reason why and I’d take some convincing. Surely to god if anything is worth anything he’d beat these on three legs.
I’ve backed Sagara. I cannot believe that a horse third in the Arc and second to Soldier Of Fortune before that cannot win a race at levels with the likes of Raincoat priced at 11/2.
Yes he will probably need the run but by how much? He would have to run something like ten pounds below his Arc run for anything in this field to get near him.
Dettori rides the stablemate, why?
Can’t quite figure all this out but surely 7/2 is a ridiculous price. What price would Soldier or Getaway be for this race?
Its one of those that looks as obvious as obvious is but then you ask yourself why the horse isn’t 4/6. If he wins you can’t believe you didn’t back him if he loses you kick yourself for backing him given that his price "shouldve told you something".
