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I think peoples readiness to accept results without question is something within racing that enables skulduggery to if not thrive at least exist.
Now, I’m not outright accusing anyone of anything but I do think given the horses clear form superiority (nearly a stone), the jockey bookings, the prices the bookies were happy to trade at and the fact that the horse didn’t get competitive at all is a pretty good reason why the authorities should take a look at the horse and the circumstances and not just ignore the issue.
Anyone can make any excuse for any horse to lose any race that isn’t difficult.
If we want the public to have confidence in the integrity of the sport then the running of Sagara really should be looked into by the authorities, thats all I’m saying.
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If we want the public to have confidence in the integrity of the sport then the running of Sagara really should be looked into by the authorities
The numerous doubts expressed in this thread, the matter of the jockey bookings, his tissue price… all these were plainly there for anyone to take into account when evaluating the likely outcome.
What else would you have "the authorities" (whoever you mean by that) look into? And who do you think should pay for any such inquiry? What is this "public" that’s always being invoked, and why do you think you speak for it? Have you sometimes reflected, that in a society (and with a sport) already so beset by checks and balances, maybe these constant calls for inquiries into this, that and the other might tend to kill rather than cure the things we love?
The glorious thing about Racing is the uncertainty (c.f. The Oaks today) … or should we also clamour for an inquiry into why a twice-raced, 33-1 pony-sized outsider was allowed to win a classic? Skullduggery perhaps?? Or an Aidan O’Brien conspiracy???
If we want the public to have confidence in the integrity of the sport then the running of Sagara really should be looked into by the authorities
The numerous doubts expressed in this thread, the matter of the jockey bookings, his tissue price… all these were plainly there for anyone to take into account when evaluating the likely outcome.
What else would you have "the authorities" (whoever you mean by that) look into? And who do you think should pay for any such inquiry? What is this "public" that’s always being invoked, and why do you think you speak for it? Have you sometimes reflected, that in a society (and with a sport) already so beset by checks and balances, maybe these constant calls for inquiries into this, that and the other might tend to kill rather than cure the things we love?
The glorious thing about Racing is the uncertainty (c.f. The Oaks today) … or should we also clamour for an inquiry into why a twice-raced, 33-1 pony-sized outsider was allowed to win a classic? Skullduggery perhaps?? Or an Aidan O’Brien conspiracy???
The Oaks is a different case entirely. It is made up of three year old fillies untried largely, untested open to whatever improvement.
You get strange results. Look at the turn around between Voy Por Ustedes and Master Minded at Aintree. I can accept that – both top class horses, the ground, the track, the distance etc.
Tonight though its clearly different. Here was a horse that has finished close up to the very best horses in Europe, running at its trip, on ground its fine with against horses rated more than ten lengths its inferior and it couldn’t even manage to put in anything of a challenge. Had Dylan Thomas run the same race tonight would everyone have just accepted it?
I think the authorities (whoever are employed to look into "strange occurancies") SHOULD be looking into this. That isn’t to say anyone has to charged but the public need confidence in the sport and that includes the Saturday afternoon punter in the street. How are you going to convince them that the game is straight if horses are allowed to get "stuffed" in races three grades lower without it being questioned?
Who pays for it? I find that sort of question largely irrelevant. Who pays for the trial of a mass murderer? No one likes to pay but what is the alternative?
I agree with you to a degree that as a society issue maybe there is too much (for want of a better word) probing, but racing hardly has the best of images. Not only does it have to be straight it has to be seen to be straight.
I repeat I’m not looking for anyone to be held over an open fire but I do think those that are in a position to look into cases should look into this one. To just accept every result (no matter how strange) as the norm surely isn’t the right thing to do if the public is to be re-assured of racings integrity.
Before this race Sagara had such a form advantage over its rivals that it should’ve been an odds on chance. The fact that it wasn’t together with other things leaves the whole issue with a very unsatisfactory look.
Ian, I’m normally pretty vocal when it comes to integrity but I honestly cant see anything too unusual with the race tonight.
The same thing seems to have happened with Literato. At Longchamp a few weeks ago he was a shadow of the horse he was last year.
Their not machines, it happens.
Ian, I’m normally pretty vocal when it comes to integrity but I honestly cant see anything too unusual with the race tonight.
The same thing seems to have happened with Literato. At Longchamp a few weeks ago he was a shadow of the horse he was last year.
Their not machines, it happens.
I’m sure it does, of course, but shouldn’t someone be looking into it or should it just be accepted without question? Thats the point I’m trying to get at.
If we just accept everything isn’t that an open invitation for "anything goes?".
With due respect, if you think Sheikh Mohammed set up Godolphin to fiddle in 17 grand listed races, then you are out of your tree. I’m done on this subject.
If I thought there was something to look into I’d say go for it with all guns blazing. However in this case in my opinion I dont think there is. It wouldnt be the first time Godolphin have crocked a good ‘un and integrity wise I think their as straight as they come.
No question – Godolphin are as straight as they come!
But what happened to Sagara? He finished last. Has he not got over being gelded? Please excuse ignorance – does this happen sometimes? Agree with firefox’s earlier post suggesting that Godolphin only geld as a last resort.
Not even in the frame.
The authorities need to look at this race and the running of Sagara. I cannot believe that all is right here.
Suroor was interviewed before the race saying the horse had shown them "nothing" and would "need the race". Also, Goodwood is a quirky track that Sagara wouldn’t have encountered [or anything like it] before. His overall profile wouldn’t suggest that a steadily run 1m4f round Goodwood would be up his street. Plus as has been said previously, he’s a lazy bugger. I should think Cup races will be the future for him.
Not even in the frame.
The authorities need to look at this race and the running of Sagara. I cannot believe that all is right here.
Suroor was interviewed before the race saying the horse had shown them "nothing" and would "need the race". Also, Goodwood is a quirky track that Sagara wouldn’t have encountered [or anything like it] before. His overall profile wouldn’t suggest that a steadily run 1m4f round Goodwood would be up his street. Plus as has been said previously, he’s a lazy bugger. I should think Cup races will be the future for him.
Thanks for the info mate.
I can only reiterate the comments re Godolphin. You just have to look at the Diomed Stakes to see that. Frankie can’t make the weight on Alexandros but because Alexandros is considered the first string, McEvoy wears the Blue Cap. They are as honest as they come.
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I can only reiterate the comments re Godolphin. You just have to look at the Diomed Stakes to see that. Frankie can’t make the weight on Alexandros but because Alexandros is considered the first string, McEvoy wears the Blue Cap. They are as honest as they come.
Really, db?
That’s not the impression they gave in this morning’s RP;“Young Pretender ran well last time and he seems to be coming to himself. He is in good form and has progressed.
Alexandros is running so that we can find out how good he is for the future. He should improve for the race”.Certainly the money for Alexandros, the drift of Young Pretender, and Frankie’s agent’s surprise when the one they were ‘finding out’ about got beat tell a different story.
I too have a lot of respect for Godolphin, and Sheikh Mo certainly doesn’t need to land gambles to survive, but it would be naive to think that all their horses run entirely on their merits every time they run.
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