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Cracksman headed Capri inside the furlong pole, he was clearly in the lead, as can be seen from the ATR side-on replay and as noted by Gary O’Brien, but Capri got back up to win.
Yes, but, had Cracksman being in a better position up the field before coming into the straight, his sustained run might have got there, if he did not need to start as soon as Smullen had to start the pushing. Smullen gave the horse too much to do , he had to start working on Cracksman well before going into the straight , its some wonder that he got so close.Cracksman was prominent and got the rail, fine ride by Seamie.
A couple of months on from when I last asked and in light of more results, have you changed your mind Joni?
Will Frankel’s fee go up, down or stay the same for the next breeding season?
It should stay the same. There are two other crops (those born in 2015 and 2016) waiting to be raced.The big decision can wait until the end of 2018
Will be interesting to see what the sales prices will be like later in the year and next spring (obviously, a separate issue) Be interesting to see which trainer gets a handle on these horses, Gosden has had his fair share of them. Camelot will be getting a lot of hype soon as will a few other Galileo sires like Australia. Juddmonte also have to promote Kingman who might be a hard sale due, like some Invincible Spirit horses being a bit too prone to injury.
I don’t think anyone was angry for saying he might not win the Derby – you weren’t the only one to say that. The problem I had with you is when you wrote off Frankel as a sire back in May.
And so far, little has been done to think otherwise. Queen Kindly is gone as is Fair Eva.We had all accepted that Cracksman and Martyn Meade’s horse would be okay and Aty Peasse was gutsy.
Anyway Cracksman has run an absolute cracker and was beaten by a horse who had the run of the race. Saying that, he had every chance and just wasn’t quite good enough today.
Hmm , race is over and all, but I wonder how much Pat would have liked to have re-run that race again,not entirely sure that he was not good enough on the day. He had to be held back because he was up with the pace at Epsom and I don’t think he really liked the track like a majority of horses.
I agree that he could turn out to be the best middle distance 3 year old but it looked like he had a hard race today so maybe the King George? He is improving with his racing and I am sure there is a big pay day around the corner.
Pity that the King George is so close, end of the month? Definitely worth a shot, would like to have kept him in 3 year old company though like the Paris race, but……….
The less we see of Colm the better imo. He’s a bumper and borer, the racing king of the professional foul.
The question is,is that carry on based on orders from higher up?
Lost Solider, spot on. Many of these jockies, maybe even Hefferenan too, would not get within an arse’s roar of the good jobs in Ireland (the few that are there) were it not for Coolmore, never mind regular Group 1s around the world and even Classics! Like many Irish jocks, they would be slumming it in class 4 and 5s’ in the middle of nowhere in England
Hefferenan has been with O’Brien from day 1 , he even got the chance to be the big boy in 2009/2010 and did alright, but not good enough by their standards.Famously nearly lost on Australia ,in a maiden
Heff is highly respected by the team and is a most trust employee on the gallops training. Yet, despite ridding a lot of O’Brien horses in 2009/2010 in Ireland, he came no where near winning the Irish Jocks title. No where near it, not even third place and if he was going well in 2009 and 2010, he would have been supported with Wachman Coolmore horses. He wasn’t long with Bolger before that either, but whose going to knock off the jockey going out with the trainer’s daughter? (remarkable that Bolger has been so loyal to Manning)
Colm, well, based on the low level of number of wins over the years in Ireland (to be fair, not too many rides) he would have had to go to England like what Sean Levy had to do (Richard Hannon) at least he had a ride with Jessie, who has done much better since getting rid of Fran Berry , who has since left Classic winning Trainer Ralph Beckett
These lads know where their bread is buttered! They would be journey men if not with Coolmore, whether if they stayed in Ireland or went to the UK
Suppose it would not have been unreasonable to have given Beggy a mount in the Derby instead of the daughter
For me,my big problem is Lordan being lower than both O’Brien kids in the pecking order. Ridiculous . He seems to have no drive to succeed at all
I admired Cracksman as non typical Frankel head case horse after his gusty run in the Epsom Trial. However, I was certain that he would not win the Epsom Derby and believed that many were being ruled by their heart rather than their head,I had said so too, much to the anger of his fans. I believed that he would place in the Irish Derby and no more, but jesus, he really could have and should have won that, and I am not inclined to blame the horse
I am a big fan of Smullen, but, he simply is not ridding well this year, regardless of Weld’s poor and baffling bad form . He gave Mori a good ride at Royal Ascot, can’t be blamed for Mirage Dancer and had no chance with Gosden’s other Juddmonte horse, less said the better about the rest of the week (performance wise, I am not referring to wins)
He was right to have the horse held back and not get used up with that pace , no doubt Gosden would have asked him to do so. Smullen knows the Curragh better than most jockeys but maybe he should not have had him so far back because Smullen was working on him long before they entered the final bend. Hindsight
Cracksman, now I believe in him. Something like a British Champion Stakes is up his line. Maybe even go to France in two or so weeks for the Grand Prix the Paris (the unofficial 5th French Classic, though some might not see the French St Leger as a classic anymore) but that might be way too soon. He may well turn out to be the best of the 3 year old middle distant horses yet
What about the ones that he did not win? Time at Godolpin? Jocks often get more remembered for the mess ups than the success
All fine and well ridding for Mark Johnson, the amount of times that he runs his horses in a short time, he is bound to win a race or two, maybe even a decent class 2 handicap .
For all his strike rate at the quieter courses or up north where the competition , while fierce (Fahey, Dandy etc are no messers) he rarely got rides at the big festivals like Goodwood or York (okay, he won a Group 1 which he had no business winning) . The other owners and trainers can’t all be wrong
Still though, SDS has done really well in Hong Kong for the last two years, with the limited chances. Another winter over there would do him the world of good
Frima , Dermot Weld, hasn’t won a maiden, running in the Naas Oaks Trial in a few minutes
High Point
1. Big Orange winning . Did someone call him a “Group 2 horse”. Goodwood Cup has been promoted because of horses like him and OSG.
2. Highland Reel finally winning a big one, and he has had a very tough month
3. New names to the winners list at Royal Ascot eg Murphy (that celebration
) , Stevie Donoghue and two others4. Godolphin making things interesting
5. Despite my hatred for the fashion people on ITV, they were no where near as annoying as Gok Wan. In all, bar a few annoying moments by Plank Chamberlin, the presentation by ITV was excellent
6. Making profit. Only week of the year that I consistently do. All down hill for now until the Irish Champions Weekend though
7. The Weather . There has always been a bit of a stalls bias in sprints at Ascot. High draw often is the place to be. Really , it is where ever the pace is.On the same note, the stall should have killed off the chances of horses drawn wide in the Vase , but it did not. Personally, this is not a week where you put on all of your bets the night before. Great do it if the odds are good, but really, sometimes it is wise to do it race by race to see what the pattern is like
Low Point
1. The soon to be annual gathering of complaining about Ryan Moore where it is not merited eg the Ascot GC ride and Churchill
2. Naught or Nice (John Oxx) not getting her run because of the slipped saddle. Things just can’t get any worse for John Oxx
3. Fair Eva not making Ascot (well, we knew about that in advance) Wonder will see even be back?
4. The realisation that Stoute needs a full time jockey now. Can’t be having different jocks on the horse for every race.
Did he think he was riding Pegasus. Fair do to ITV who did not shirk the issue of the ride Moore gave OOSG and they all agreed that he should have won.
What a shame because the amount of ground OOSG made up in a short space of time was quite staggering.As I said in the Gold Cup thread, Droffats:
Criticism of Moore is overblown.
OOSG is fully effective between a soft surface well run 1m4f and a truly run 2m4f; ie has speed at this trip. When racing at 1m4f it makes perfect sense for him to race prominently, because he’ll never be taking a hold and stamina is his asset at that trip. However, when racing at a full mile further – 2m4f – he’s racing at a pace significantly slower in the early stages. Had Ryan innitially jumped out and let the horse go faster – to get a closer early position – there would be a good chance he’d get racing at his usual 1m6f speed (taking a strong hold). OOSG can also get a little excited at the start (sweats). Ryan played the percentages and took a pull in order to settle OOSG (just like last year). There’s always a chance the pace thereafter won’t suit a hold up horse and that’s what happened.If looking at how OOSG is ridden:
At 1m4f he’s ridden prominently.
At 1m6f he’s never any closer than mid-div early, sometimes held up.
At 2m+ he’s always held up.Ryan Moore was never going to ride any other way. When assessing a race the punter needs to consider how the form horse could get beaten, how likely it is of getting the neccesary (optimum) pace and what rival/s have the type of run style to benefit.
BO had the run style to benefit if OOSG got too far back in a race that was not run in even fractions. ie At a time when OOSG was trying to quicken to make up ground from the rear, the front runners were also quickening. Which makes it doubly hard.
Had Moore taken a decision to race more prominently and OOSG been too free… he’d have lost and punters would’ve complained.
This is an extreme distance which few truly stay and if OOSG hadn’t settled perfectly he’d have had no chance.Spot on! Moore rode him the same way as he has done before and most certainly to instruction
Hindsight is great, but, O’Brien’s body language was telling enough before the race , I had put money on Becketts Qatar Filly at that point, each way
and a small one on Big Orange (for old times sake) . By that point I though, to hell with it, throw more money on Big Orange If he stayed , he’d win. I genuinely believed that OSG would flop big time on good -firm, despite the Arc,(even with water) bullish even, but no, he ran really well, just these horses ain’t machines and they have to be ridden a certain wayLook at how he won last year (Moore wasn’t great there either as far as I remember) , or Leading Light in 2014……….similar fashion. Aidan calls the shots!
Just unlucky yesterday. Not prepared to blame Moore, unlike the disaster that was the Irish St Leger (even that is a black hole for Ascot Gold Cup winners)
I’ll probably be watching ITV today as RUK are also covering fifty other meetings.
The fashion stuff has always been the same on the mainstream channels. It’s an intrinsic part of the meeting, like it or not, and lots of casual fans enjoy it. My grandma is always on about the hats and dresses when she watches it, although it makes me yawn.
There is no getting away from it without watching the dedicated channels, I don’t think.
I personally haven’t noticed any more fashion crap on ITV than I did on C4 or BBC, but maybe that’s because I don’t pay enough attention to it!
Here is the thing though, ITV have prominently featured the two fashionistas. Prominently. When C4 had Gok Wan, he was not as prominent with his segments. They at least got him in on the fun with betting tips (tended to bet on 3-4 horses in a race)
At least with the NBC coverage, and it is evident European TV cover it, they have that chef on who at least is worth while with ingredients of the popular foods and drinks and how to make them eg that Mint Julip drink that you see them drink in bucket fulls at the Kentucky races (great PR for the main sponsor Woodford)
I am all for the bright , shiny coverage of the main stream channels (and ITV have done a decent job of it ) Murtagh has been good (bar the singing but fair play, Francesca has been disappointing at times with some errors of facts and Ed, oh dear. Brian Gleeson is grand and Chappers has been good. Harvey has been excellent
But these fashionistas are way too much. Way too much air time.Yer man looks like a garden gnome.
How many more times those that clown Chamberlain have to remind us how HRM The Queen “Loves” her horses. ? Why doesn’t Chamberlain nip off for an ice cream while the fashionistas babble on
It was a fraught day for the Lord Great Chamberlain – currently the 7th Marquess of Cholmondeley – as he had the unenviable task of having to hire a Bugatti Veyron in order to transport Her Majesty at 150mph from the Palace of Westminster, where she had some boring meeting or other, to Ascot in time for the 2.30. That well known Royalist, Dennis Skinner, was good enough to remind those gathered for the unavoidable chinwag that this was the case, bless him
So, one could forgive His Lordship the fawning as I expect he’d had an earful from Queenie and felt the need to relieve his stress with something stronger then an ice cream
By the way, and would you adam-and-eve the coincidence, there’s a chap who does the racing on ITV who shares nearly the same name: no not Ed Chumley, that would be taking coincidence too far: Ed Chamberlin
Ah, I see the error of my ways. “Chamberlin”. That actually took a while to cop on. Jolly good, well played
And Frankel finally gets a winner @Ascot
Fantastic race, well done backers. I have to feel for OOSG, he is such a class act but just found this one too tough to get past. Ryan Moore will no doubt get slated by all the pocket talkers on social media, but I thought he timed it to perfection. Had he went any earlier Big Orange would’ve have rallied even quicker, he’s a horse who thrives off a good eyeballing. Thriller all around.
Ryan Moore gave the horse a pretty similar run like he did last year. Leading Light also won like this. Anyone who thinks jockies don’t heed AOB on how he wants his horses running, is naive, regardless of the class of jockey is on board. I believed that the ground would do him in, but, he ran well to suggest that was not the issue. OSG had a long year last year, many Ascot Gold Cup winners do next to nothing after winning it in the same season, OSG should have won the Irish St Leger but he ran a blinder at the Arc, and should never have been sent to Ascot thereafter
If ya don’t love the Cup races, there is something wrong with ye.
Never ceases to amaze me about people who love their National Hunt racing but have an issue with races like the Gold Cup. Cup racing ain’t racing for botttlers. They don’t dodge races and the better you are , the more likely as some point you have to carry weight penalties for the Listed and group 3s. Some horse , Big Orange, have made a few nice pennies since the days of Tom Queally wining the Noel Murless on him. Delighted for Doyle as well
Rather surprised how well OSG ran, didn’t think he had much of a chance with the ground (after all AOB use to send him for soft ground races) On to Goodwood which is now a Group 1 thanks to the likes of Big Orange
Good to see Harbour Law back in form too
) , Stevie Donoghue and two others
and a small one on Big Orange (for old times sake) . By that point I though, to hell with it, throw more money on Big Orange If he stayed , he’d win. I genuinely believed that OSG would flop big time on good -firm, despite the Arc,(even with water) bullish even, but no, he ran really well, just these horses ain’t machines and they have to be ridden a certain way