Forum Replies Created
- Posts
Yes must agree, I expect grandouet to reverse that at cheltenham but sticking with hurricaine fly,might even say slightly more confident having seen that.
Before the race Sprinter Sacre was rated 180p by Timeform, that compared to 184 Moscow Flyer. The "p" means there’s every indication he’ll improve to at least be as good as MF. Can’t remember a novice with as high a rating as 180 anyway. However, although he’s obviously still got that potential and could be the best 2 mile chaser we’ve ever seen – I believe he will be, but is still (imo) to show it. Ruby went off far too fast and SS can not be rated by S’s run. Even in a stroll, how good is a 15 length beating of Kumbeshwar? Yes, he had "any amount" in hand and the "p" might even be replaced by a "P", but the form performance wasn’t any better than Sprinter Sacre’s brilliant novice form (imo). Brilliant though it was, I don’t think we learnt anything more about him than we knew already.
P.S. Anyone thinking he’s a 3 miler should look at the horse pulling over the first fence. No going up in trip at the moment please.
Gingertipster with all due respect, but saying we learnt nothing we dont already know I care to disagree, Sacre did not exactly put exactly put in the immaculate jumping performance that we expected IMO but look at the result. It kind of looked like as long as he got around it will do, weather the opposition had htree legs or five. It`s a classic example of Sanctuaire trying to win and not running for second I believe.
Banker, get your cheltenham bankers, get your priced up cheltenham bankers before thier gone!
Promising to be a craking cracking race! By no means a two horse races as some perty decent opposition in the mix, the two are going to have to prove they are the real deal for either to win. I get the feeling though that SDC could be forgiven a bad run here but not flemenstar, with rescept to the gold cup.
Are we going to be seeing the next gold cup winner?
Why should Kauto Star have the edge on class ?
Denman was unbeaten over fences prior to his debiliating heart problems and who’s to say that would not have continued if that misfortune had not happened to him.
In contrast,Kauto Star had already been beaten over fences before their epic first Gold Cup meeting and was beaten several times in his career without any excuses,albeit he was brilliant at Kempton in winning his five King George races.
No-one can be certain he would have beaten Denman anywhere if Denman had not had his problems after his Gold Cup win.
Unfortunately,it is something we can never know….though we do know the results of their four meetings together !
Yes I may be inclined to agree that if we look at the gold cup at Cheltenham Denman would win my vote, but if we go to distance any distance from 2 mile to a flat 3mile course ala KG kempton Kauto star would take my vote migth even go as far to say easily. Cheltenham is ideal for Demnans strenghts while it is not ideal for kauto hence I say his class got him those two Gold cups, where the situation to be reversed and the situation was ideal in Kautos favour……
Both greats horse we cannot argue that though.
I agree with you, ArkleSupreme. Denman was clearly a greater chaser at three miles and beyond than Kauto Star. I don’t think there is much debate over that, especially with many of Kauto Star’s highly-rated performances now easily downgraded in hindsight. Given a chance to re-evaluate his 2009 King George and second Gold Cup, slightly more conservative ratings would be given than the ones made at the time.
Although GT is right in observing that Kauto Star only held off Neptune Collonges by a nose in 2008, that was because Kauto Star got outjumped and outstayed by Denman. NC’s dour stamina closed the gap there. All races between Denman and Kauto Star after 2008 are irrelevant as Denman’s riding style was changed and the horse was a lesser force.
Anyway, onto the Betfair Chase. I expect Long Run will be fully fit for this race as Nicky Henderson reportedly regrets leaving him undercooked last year. Silviniaco Conti will also handle the ground, though, as a son of Dom Alco. I don’t trust a horse with such a weak constitution as Weird Al, so think it is between the ‘big two’ in the market.
The ‘decline’ of Long Run is greatly exaggerated. He did not have a poor season last year and would have almost swept the board without a rejuvenated legendary chaser in his way. This year’s group of second-season chasers looks exceptional, though. There a very special group.
Silviniaco Conti
is my choice.[/quo
Regarding the Kauto star and denman debate I agree Kauto was not a stayer it was his class and superior jumping ability that got him theGold cups, while denman was a powerful stayer, so in that aspect if we are talking about sraying its denman but on class kauto has the edge.
Going for longrun at 25/1 to win the BF KG and Gold cup, if back to his best and he is still relativly young i can see that happing. Having said that will be taking 7/1 on conti for the KG, though will be going for G crus as well in that.
For the getfair i give conti the edge but both SC and LR are to short thus will as stated will be taking the 7/1 for KG and 25 for the treble as those will be cut significantlt should either put in an impresive performance which i could see happening.
Im with you on this but i fear we wont have much of a price left after the weekend. On the other hand it is looking to be a very strong renewal of the KG.
Realy Fancied Finians Rainbow for the QM last year and realy fancy him for the ryanair this year. I think his at a very good price though it will be a very strong field with Sacre probably scaring everyone off to this.
Now some readers are throwing Mill Reef and Sir Ivor into the mix and "middle distance " is used to exclude Frankel.They are even using the Derby to exlude him. And name calling the great Sea the Stars.Others using an extra hundred yards to prove he WAS a middle distance horse.Sad.Why not admit he was the greatest non Derby,non Arc winner in the world, over a mile and two and leave it at that?
Just to back you up a bit andyod, too many great races horses of the past out there to give Frakel the title greatest ever.
And to bring in a bad comparism, I cant` give messi the best footballer ever title until he wins th world cup. May not be fair and frankel was never given the chance but still no derby no arc the two bigeest in my book. Mind you on anything that could be called reasonable groud i would have expected frankel to have won the arc easily(but he didn`t), not the derby though as he couldn`t settle at 3.
I personaly was think the same thing, it would be great sportmanship if he would go to Haydock ,it would be a true test how how good he realy is, and very good he is indeed. He has proved on level weights he is easily the best, though some of his wins may noy have been that convincing, no one was ever going to get by, it`s how he races. So why not up the challenge (and prize money) give him some weight, would be fascinating.
Breeders cup sends me to the cleaners once again.
Not the best for punting as Íve never heard of majority of the runners but heck Its good fun.
Okay I can`t let this go without a comment,to name some of the greats
Phar lap
secretariat
Sea Bird
Eclipse
Kincsem
Dancing Brave
brigadier gerard
Ribbot
man O warI am sure these champions would have had a thing or two to say about frankel being the "greatest ever".
I have been to see him run twice as at three year old and then at four again and might agree may never see another like him but he is one of the greatest races horse ever in my book.
An honorable mention to the gold cup winner, remember being very impressed by his run at Kempton before the Gold cup and had him as almost a certainty for the gold cup. True has had a long season and has not been overly impressive since but won the gold cup at ascot last time under similar conditions and if not exhausted has to have a good shout!
Fame and Glory has been disappointing this season but will watch the market as if they think he is going good at home will defiantly consider giving him another chance.
Opinion Poll, well rested consistent sort, would go for colour vision over him but for the long season the later has had gives claim for debate.
Pick: colour vision!
