- This topic has 76 replies, 24 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 6 months ago by
.
- Posts
A good few hours on and I am slightly more restrained in my praise for Sprinter Sacre. I am back to thinking he COULD be the best I have ever seen, but want more evidence. Bring on Sizing Europe or Finian’s Rainbow.
Kauto Star beat reigning champion chaser Voy Por Ustedes in this race on the bridle and eased down a few years ago. Sprinter Sacre could easily surpass that, but did not have a champion chaser to beat today. Sanctuaire is just a one-dimensional horse who pummelled some season-weary horses at the end of last year.
A wonderfully impressive performance from Sprinter Sacre.
There’s nothing quite like top class two milers around Sandown, and Sanctuaire certainly played his part by arguably jumping with more exuberance than the immaculate Arkle winner.
A quick word of caution. Master Minded arrived on these shores and beat a former Arkle winner and reigning champion – Voy Por Ustedes – by 19L on just his third completed start in this country.
He also looked invincible over two miles the following season, where he handed out a 10L thrashing to Arkle hero, Tidal Bay, before defending his title at Cheltenham.
Things didn’t look so rosy during the next campaign and his aura of invincibility had gone. He could still throw in the odd impressive perofrmance, but Master Minded looked a shadow of himself on occasions and appeared vulnerable prior to the end of his career due to injury.
He was only an 8YO when recording his final Grade 1 success. During the aftermath of his first Queen Mother success he was widely anticipated to win a handful of championships because he was so dominant as a mere 5YO, and Sprinter Sacre boasts similar attributes – a strong traveller, spectacular jumper, but something of a coiled spring.
Make no mistake, those level of performances take more out of him than it would necessarily appear, and Sprinter Sacre will need to curb his enthusiasm if he is to be granted the longevity to become a legend.
I hope he does because Sprinter Sacre looks a true monster in every sense of the word – big, handsome and beautiful to watch. Frankel and Kauto Star’s respective retirements have left a huge void in the sport, but this chap has the ability to fill such large boots.
Before the race Sprinter Sacre was rated 180p by Timeform, that compared to 184 Moscow Flyer. The "p" means there’s every indication he’ll improve to at least be as good as MF. Can’t remember a novice with as high a rating as 180 anyway. However, although he’s obviously still got that potential and could be the best 2 mile chaser we’ve ever seen – I believe he will be, but is still (imo) to show it. Ruby went off far too fast and SS can not be rated by S’s run. Even in a stroll, how good is a 15 length beating of Kumbeshwar? Yes, he had "any amount" in hand and the "p" might even be replaced by a "P", but the form performance wasn’t any better than Sprinter Sacre’s brilliant novice form (imo). Brilliant though it was, I don’t think we learnt anything more about him than we knew already.
P.S. Anyone thinking he’s a 3 miler should look at the horse pulling over the first fence. No going up in trip at the moment please.
Gingertipster with all due respect, but saying we learnt nothing we dont already know I care to disagree, Sacre did not exactly put exactly put in the immaculate jumping performance that we expected IMO but look at the result. It kind of looked like as long as he got around it will do, weather the opposition had htree legs or five. It`s a classic example of Sanctuaire trying to win and not running for second I believe.
some valid points been made here, particularly when comparing him to master minded. people have short memories and I recall when he pummelled his champion chase field as a five year old, he was hailed as the second coming. now he’s barely considered in discussions about the best horse ever over jumps.
I think it’s jumping the gun to say that sprinter sacre will dominate the 2 mile division for the next five years barring injury. five years is a long time in life let alone horse racing, as the case of master minded proved.
however I seriously believe that this horse could be the best ever seen over jumps. better than arkle, kauto, anything really.
it’s very hard to find fault with him. if there is a flaw its that he jumped some of those early fences yesterday quite slowly in comparison with sanctuaire, perhaps because he’s such a big horse he has trouble just pinging them at times. so his jumping could still improve. but when he gets one right it takes your breath away..
he’s also got more natural pace than any chaser i’ve ever seen.you got the impression that he could have picked up sanctuaire any time he wanted yesterday, impressive given that one took off like a scalded cat, and was basically just toying with him.
essentially he’s like denman with rocket boosters. the skys the limit with him, so lets just hope he stays safe and sound.
Barry Geraghty has given conflicting answers about Sprinter Sacre.
On one hand he said that Sprinter is the best horse he’s ever ridden, yet on the other, he says that he has the potential to be as good as Moscow Flyer.
I read that as Mr. Geraghty being respectful to the owner and trainer of the former Champion Chaser – hence the diplomatic response.
Moscow Flyer, brilliant as he was, wouldn’t have got Sprinter out of second gear.
I know Sprinter Sacre has still to win the Champion Chase ( which he will, in March, barring a fall ) but already he has given all the signs that he just might be the greatest of all the two milers – Badsworth Boy and Flyingbolt included.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
Moscow Flyer, brilliant as he was, wouldn’t have got Sprinter out of second gear.
I know Sprinter Sacre has still to win the Champion Chase ( which he will, in March, barring a fall ) but already he has given all the signs that he just might be the greatest of all the two milers – Badsworth Boy and Flyingbolt included.
I’m just pleased people aren’t getting carried away!
Barry Geraghty has given conflicting answers about Sprinter Sacre.
On one hand he said that Sprinter is the best horse he’s ever ridden, yet on the other, he says that he has the potential to be as good as Moscow Flyer.
Has Sprinter Sacre won a Champion Chase ? No. Moscow did, so therefor….
Sprinter’s the best horse i’ve seen at 2 miles. Also confident he could stay further next season for the King George.
Gingertipster with all due respect, but saying
we
learnt nothing we dont already know I care to disagree,
Apologies SE, you’re right. I should not have used the word "we"; you and clearly some others did not know Sprinter Sacre is that good. Some of us did.
Don’t know if you realise the significance of that 180p rating on his novice career SE.
Sprinter Sacre was
175p
in Chasers And Hurdlers, but because of horses he’d beaten last year doing so well this season… Suggesting even the 175p was too little and should be upped a further 5 lbs to
180p
even before his first run as a second season chaser on Saturday.
I’ve taken a look at Timeform Chasers And Hurdlers from 2000 to 2012. From what I could see – their top novice chasers with a "p" for "likely to improve" were:
Beef Or Salmon 165p
Denman 161p
Bacchanal 161p
Moscow Flyer 159p
Azertyuiop 159pTidal Bay was rated 160+. + is "the horse may be better than we have rated it". Not quite the same as "p".
Gloria Vectis had the best rating for a novice (without a "p or +")in that time at 172. So sadly lost his life in the Gold Cup as a novice when looking sure to be placed (if I remember correctly).
I don’t know if any of those ratings were upped (like Sprinter Sacre) before they ran in their second season, but it puts in to perspective just how good Sprinter Sacre was as a novice. Which is why I said we didn’t learn anything more about his ability from Sandown.
Value Is EverythingWithout SS that would easily have been the worst Tingle Creek in at least 10 years and thats being generous. I could of beat the likes of Kinkeel riding the donkey from the local zoo.
Don’t rate Sanctuaire at all, if he goes to Cheltenham in March and manages to get a place i’ll be surprised, can’t see how people can have learnt to much from the race, his Arkle form stands out a lot more.
I’m just pleased people aren’t getting carried away!
Sprinter Sacre could be the "new Arkle"
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
Without SS that would easily have been the worst Tingle Creek in at least 10 years and thats being generous. I could of beat the likes of Kinkeel riding the donkey from the local zoo.
Don’t rate Sanctuaire at all, if he goes to Cheltenham in March and manages to get a place i’ll be surprised, can’t see how people can have learnt to much from the race, his Arkle form stands out a lot more.
You had two of the very best horses around Danny. One of them with potential to be the best 2 miler we’ve ever seen. The only two horses who could’ve added to it were last year’s Champion Chase one/two. However, one is a stable companion of Sprinter Sacre and two seems likely to go up in trip this season. Away from the Cheltenham Festival; when there’s such an outstanding favourite you’ll always be lucky to attract more than one good rival.
Value Is EverythingIs it just me, or is Sanctuaire a bit soft? Maybe he only just gets two miles…
Zip
I think that any horse that goes off in the manner he did on Saturday will ‘only just get 2 miles’. If he could somehow keep that gallop up all the way round even Sprinter Sacre would of struggled to get to him.
One thing I would say though is that the standout 16/1 for the QMCC looks decent each way value to me. Supposing he runs I think it’s pretty obvious that Ruby(or whoever would be aboard) would take a slight more of a pull on him so he didn’t go all out from the start. If he ran for a place rather than trying to outpace the mighty SS it could be easy pickings for such a potentially talented horse.
Good point there Boz, could be a very uncompetitive small field race come March. Sizing and Finians could easily take the Ryanair route. Sanctuaire wouldn’t need to find a great deal of improvement on novice form to beat those two even if they did turn up. He himself wouldn’t get the longer trip; so a more likely Champion starter. Last year he waited for Aintree, but there’s no point this time around. Am pretty certain the reason for such a poor run on Saturday was the suicidal pace. Already a winner at the Festival (Fred Winter) on good ground… Do fear Sanctuaire getting worse at the start and refusing to race. But at the price is worth taking a chance. If I could get 16/1 each way at 1/4 odds – I’d be getting involved Boz. Unfortunately for me Stan James are the only bookie doing so; William Hill 16’s, but only 1/5th.
Value Is EverythingEven going a steadier pace, I still can’t see Sanctuaire lasting home up the hill. Also would Nicholls & Walsh be prepared to let SS go and just run for the place?
Throw into the mix the possibility of the likes of Cue Card, Sizing Europe and Finians poteI personally couldn’t back him.
I wouldn’t be interested in backing something each-way that has zero chance of winning, which would be the case with santcuaire assuming sprinter sacre turns up, as you are essentially throwing away the win part of your bet.
instead just back him for a place on betfair if you fancy him to feature.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.