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The only hope have of those trainers running horses against Australia in the derby is that he shows so much speed that he might not stay 12f. Highly unlikely on his breeding though and Geoffrey Chaucer seems an able no2. Thought he might have run Adelaide instead of kingfisher but that may change.
It seems like whatever ballydoyle do they get a lot of flak. Surely now he has said why his yard has made a slow start then it is reasonable to assume that a lot of ballydoyles inmates will improve when they run next time. Also of course you should get a good price on the horses too. Cue somebody saying it’s all a ballydoyle conspiracy. Geoffrey Chaucer ew at 20/1 for the derby. That will do for me.
Funny how we all see the same race differently. Only smullen to me rode a bad race and had Geoffrey Chaucer not been blocked it would have been mighty close at the finish. As I said we shall see the next time the first three meet to as to who is the best horse. You have to remember this was a trial race and fascinating rock had two runs already this season so when it comes to bigger races I think gc will come out on top as he will have come on for the run.
This Joseph obrien bashing is getting tiresome. His horse was badly interfered with twice hence the winner lost the race. Ryan Moore rode the same kind of race in France on Adelaide,gets beat half a length when he never got a gap on the inside but nothing is said. That’s racing. To me I still think Geoffrey Chaucer looks a good horse and time will tell which of the three in the beers ford is the best. Btw didn’t pat smullen give fascinating rock a stinker of a ride. Funny nobody mentioned that.
Can’t see anything challenging Australia at the moment. Something may emerge from the trials in uk,Ireland and France in the next week or so but it is more than likely to be another obrien horse ie Geoffrey Chaucer who will be its biggest danger. Australia’s run in the guineas was an outstanding trial for the derby and if he has his parents talent over the derby distance then surely he will take a lot of getting past.
Couldn’t disagree more regards atr. The Sunday forum with Matt and Big Mac are brilliant and most of the presenters are fab. Their preview nights on Cheltenham were far better than racing uk and when Jason and Sean are discussing racing it’s always very illuminating. Got racing uk for a while but stopped as on many levels it is as bad as channel 4. Also of course the replays on atr are free. The Irish racing on atr is the best racing anywhere as we shall see tomorrow at leapordstown and of course they will have guineas day at long champ. Add to that the Melbourne and breeders cup and it’s no contest for me. I would pay to see atr but wouldn’t pay for ruk. That’s the difference.
It’s always difficult trying to judge different eras but to me this wasn’t a vintage guineas. Kingman looks as if 8f was his limit and only Australia could come out of the race with reputation enhanced as not only did he seem a little unlucky when put off by not but all his breeding suggests Saturday was a bonus and all roads lead to Epsom. As for the winner,he showed a fine turn of foot to win but you get the impression that if all the milers turned up for the St. James’s palace I wouldn’t put much money on the order being the same. Great ride from Kieran though and he seems to be on the crest of a wave. The curragh guineas could well see the likes of war command a lot closer and aiden obrien will no doubt have a lightly raced horse in the mix. The first two had a previous run and those having their first run will come on a bundle for the race.
Fabulous looking horse with a slightly odd action but a beautiful mover and a wonderful winner of the July cup. Unfortunate to be around the same time as the great el gran señor or would be considered one of the greats. Was a stunning winner on debut of the Coventry and blitzed the field in the st james palace confirming how brilliant el gran snor was at a mile, his only flaw was his temperament and that probably carried on in his progeny when he went to stud. God knows what makes a good stallion but the two coolore stallions of the moment,war front and fastnet rock weren’t top of their generation and master craftsman has made a much better start at stud than sea the stars when the latter was the better on the track although master craftsman was a super horse in his own right especially in the soft. Great memories of the early eighties when guy hardwood,Paul cole and Jeremy tree vied with Vincent obrien for the top prizes. Vintage years indeed.
Many horses leave the form of the guineas behind them later on in the season. I wouldn’t be surprised if war command improves and like other war fronts runs better over 10f and the same could be said for Kingston hill. Australia ran a cracker and looks like a worthy derby favourite. As for kingman it looks to me he simply was beaten by the extra furlong and NOT improved more for his first run. The joys of dissecting form.
Considering all of Australia’s breeding suggests he he will improve greatly when going 10and12f he ran a great race and looks the worthy derby favourite although obrien has the likes of Geoffrey Chaucer to run yet. I wouldn’t write off war command or outstrip just yet and I wouldn’t be surprised if both go up to ten furlongs next.The split did make the race unsatisfactory but to me Australia was finishing best of all and would have been second but for the winners mighty swerve. I’m sure most of the field will turn up at the curragh and what’s the odds a lightly raced obrien or Bolger horse wins it.
Amazing how a trainer can make a comment and hey presto they water the ground. Not fair on the likes of war command who looks to have a great chance on good to firm going.
Maybe cirrus was underestimated but it just goes to show how much st Nicholas abbey is missed in the older horse division. Was in the form of his life when he had his injury. On fast ground he always took some beating.
El gran señor to me is possibly the best miler of all time. His guineas had chief singer as runner up who then went on to win the st James palace and the July cup. Also fourth that day was rainbow quest who went onto win the arc. I think this years renewal could well be looked back in later years as a classic as I think the front five in the betting are all very good horses although all bar kingman will probably be better at longer distances.
Im not saying Australia will win but they way he slammed free eagle in his last run without coming out of a canter was hugely impressive. free eagle could turn out to be better than all those behind kingman in the greenham so on form to me Australia is every bit as good as kingman but as you suggest the breeding doesn’t say a 2000 guineas winner. looks like being a fascinating race. they do say the guineas winner needs to be a 10f horse so I wonder if coolmore will put in a pacemaker to make it a true test. Kingfisher will probably do that job
That’s a lot of decent horses going from coolmore to Australia especially foundry and the united states. I can only assume they were offered a lot of money for them as they were two pretty exciting horses. thanks for the info.
I suspect that ballydoyle can’t separate the two horses on homework but as war command has won on the course and will probably get his ground is the reason they might go for the 2000 guineas with him. Geoffrey Chaucer looks an ideal derby type so obrien will have a job trying to place all his 3yos. Remember he has few once raced winners like agena to place as we’ll. People need to remember obrien doesn’t have the final say on where the horses run. The lads decide this as to the horses stallions prospects and I believe john magnier has the final say. Can’t believe they are aiming leading light at the ascot gold cup. Surely it would have been better to go for the coronation cup,hard wicks,Irish st leger then the 2m race on champions day. All about opinions of course.
If it comes up firm or good to firm in the guineas then war command will be there at the finish. Wouldn’t surprise me to see Australia miss the race but with Geoffrey Chaucer being obriens fav at the moment for the derby maybe he is looking at Australia over 10f. Ground conditions could well decide the result of the guineas. I think we are in danger of overhyping kingman as Australia was and don’t think he is a good thing for the guineas by any means.
