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The day you own a horse and are told by your trainer to keep your friggin nose out of it then you are with the right trainer.
Owners including myself are the worst judges in the world when it comes to placing horses. They dream too much for a kick off.
IMO if you employ the trainer too do a job you stand back and let him get on with it unless you are JP and can afford a racing manager like Frank Berry who is in constant touch with the trainers of every horse he owns.
A trainer takes many things into consideration when placing a horse.
They talk to other trainers and their jockeys talk to other jockeys daily and what they hear through the grapevine plays a big part on whether they send a horse for a race or not.
An example: many years ago I was sitting in a jockeys living room when his phone rang. It was the owner/trainer of a young novice hurdler who they were lining up for a touch. He was entered on the Monday and the O/T was all up for running him. The jockey told him that he was told that one of Michael Dickinson’s was said to be catching pigeons at home and no way should they take him on. The horse Sir Wimpy a first timer won that race on the Monday in a common canter by about 30 lengths. Their horse ran on the Tuesday and he won by 30 lengths also in a common canter landing a touch in the process.
Information like that is worth it’s weight in gold to a trainer especially with novices and middle class horses. Of course if your horse is a dog doesn’t really matter where you run him
I see no harm in someone like Kauto Star or Denman’s owners suggesting to PN where they think Denman should run as it’s not the hardest thing in the world to work out.
To be honest any first time owner who thinks he can buy a horse then start telling the trainer where to run him will very likely be asked if they wanted to train it themself in a friendly way……which is much the same as keep your friggin nose out of it
I take it we are talking about the 4 miler at Cheltenham?
There must have been 250 other horses ran in the same races over that period who never won a national. It would be interesting to know how many of those contested your list of races.
I noticed both the first and second have contested the the 4 miler and could find only one other.
Having said that the least likely of the National’s to conntain horse who ran at Chelters must be the Irish National, but it doesn’t alter the fact those following this trend could have made silly money with mixed forecasts or backing all 3.
That may well prove to be correct in the future Carv but have another look. Church Island and A New Story were going equally as well as Rare Bob.
Church Island’s jockey was sitting almost motionless up front and he never went for him until approaching the home turn and the other two never made a yard on him from that point onwards.
I think it’s more likely the faster ground found out Rare Bob more than the trip. He’s only every won on soft and soft/heavy wheras the first two have shown their best form on better ground. Time will tell!
My main worry when backing Rare Bob was the ground. I thought he might be ok on it but that’s the risk you take when having a punt on a horse with no form to back that up.
I wouldn’t single out Nina as I think most of the jockeys expected the leaders to come back to them. I backed Rare Bob and his jockey was a lot closer to the pace than most and he was clearly sitting for a long time expecting the same but Church Island wasn’t stopping for anyone. When Himalayan Trail came on the scene 6 out Church Islands jockey really turned on the tap and that injection of pace came at exactly the wrong time for those holding up their mounts. Rare Bob went from travelling well to getting pushed and shoved in a matter of strides and those further back were done for from that point on.
Very often in these races giving horses with featherweights on their backs is a big mistake and they don’t come back like expected.
Normally they do and it’s nothing to do with bad riding IMO. just one of those weird races.
Anyone who has ever seen the picture of Jonjo in tears cradling Alverton’s head in his arms know how badly he will take this. No one knows the risks more than him but it doesn’t soften the blow when you lose a horse you have grown very fond of.
Wichita Lineman like Exotic Dancer were star members of the family at Jackdaw and the staff will be gutted having lost their best two chasers in less than a month.
Heart goes out to them all.
You got them the wrong way round mate
First time out Shimah was at least 4 lengths behind the two leaders with 2 furlongs to run. Declan McDonogh barely touched her and she caught them with ease a furlong out and went past in great style. Her second run was a similar story and clearly she could have doubled the winning distance.
She ran for a 3rd time but due to very soft ground the speed was blunted but she stayed on well pointing to the fact the Newmarket mile should pose no problems.
Given good or better ground I think she’ll take all the beating.
Rainbow View although impressive, like Shimah, hasn’t beat much There have been better fillies than her beaten in the 1000 guineas. She will find it much tougher when she goes to Newmarket than she did when beating underdeveloped 2 year olds. She looked very developed and forward in all her races to me and may not have made the improvement you would normally expect.
There was nothing to Shimah at 2 years old and she looked more likely to benefit from another year on her back than Rainbow View.
I’ve looked at a lot of these fillies and if Rainbow View is to be beaten Shimah looks the most likely to be the one to put her in her place.
As a betting proposition she makes a lot more appeal at 20/1 EW than taking 6/4 about a filly who I don’t particulary like.
The grey Glass Harmonium may not be Stoute’s main guineas hope but he is a cracking horse. The Craven might be a bit beyond him but he will win his fair share of races.
I’m with you on Leocorno she has supposed to have done exceptionally well and I already had a bet on her for the Oaks.
Trafford Lad must be one of the most consistent horses in Ireland so opposing him may not be wise. He has been found out on several occasions and is beatable IMO
Joncol looks a great prospect and I’m taking a gamble with a horse who may be a bit special.
Notre Petre looks to have an impossible task here if he does run but he’s some horse and could run into a place.
Jonjo send WL here in preference to the Whitbread. He was beaming before Cheltenham and you would expect that race would have taken it’s toll. The horse is very tough and apparantly looks even better than he did at the festival. That doesn’t alter the fact he is one of the riskiest bets in training no matter where he runs.
Garde Champetre missed Aintree for this and with10st 6lbs on his back he will take some beating if within striking distance of the leaders turning for home. A lot of these staying horses are very one paced something that can’t be said about him. The ground is right, the weight is right and lacks nothing in confidence from the saddle.
Rare Bob seemed to improve when sent over 3 miles for the first time and this extra 5 furlongs could bring out even more improvement in him. He ran with credit against some decent horses over much shorter distances in his earlier chases. He has been crying out for a trip and although most of his form is on softer ground he has run well on good to yielding in the past. I think he could be absolutely thrown in at 10lb 5lbs and hopfully the weights wont go up.
Casey Jones will find this easier than he did against Cooldine and Co and with what should be a less hectic pace he should run better here.
1. Rare Bob
2. Garde Champetre
3. Casey Jones
4. Wichita LinemanI was intrigued by your posts and thought I would do some research through some of my contacts.
I was just curious who this person hell bent on attacking me could be.
It took me some time but eventually I found you here:-
http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/ … _470310311
Now normally I am very forgiving but in your case I suggest we meet, strip to the waste and fight like men.
50/50 on the ticket profits
As I said earlier my problem with Mastercraftsmen is you could run a bus through his form. Hemay be rated thetop 2yo but accoriding to what I have read at a very low mark.
We now have Delegator as 2nd fav which adds to my theory that they are one moderate bunch by 2000 guneas standards.
This horse won an 8.000 quid race by1 length by from a horse who as probably in need of a race and was beaten again next time out. He went on to win a moderate contest but that sort of form you can find at Hamilton Park on a Tuesday.
Delegator then finished close up 5th in a race where a few of Mastercraftsman’s opponents ran including Intense forcus and Shaweel with Rip Van Winkle behind. His great gallop that led to him being backed was against what? Has his trainer got horses who work well enough at home to judge how good he is?
He no doubt worked with Crowded House last season and was the so called stable star then but he may be no more than a talking horse who can’t repeat it on the track.
An OAB horse 9/2 fav against this lot stinks to the high heavens and I doubt if the trainer has 1/10th of the confidence you have GW but then he wouldn’t need to be anything special to beat them on any form shown to date.
However, when you get bunch of horses like this running all over the top of each other you invariably get a shock result, hence his generous price.
BTW you are doing well with the Fist slagging but I’ll let it go as you are doing a great job of making a complete dick of yourself without me chipping in.
As far as you being the AP king that’s the laugh of the centuary. Takes more than one race to crack it on this forum laddy.
I couldn’t begin to describe how highly I regard Ruby Walsh.
For me Ruby is the ultimate horseman who conducts himself in an excellent manner.
Our Ruby gives the impression he doesn’t suffer fools glady but as Ian said that does not make him Jack the Ripper.
Greed! can’t be having that. He’s very very competitive and so he should be. All top sportsmen are and if they weren’t they wouldn’t be top sportsmen for long.
He was visibly upset after last years Gold Cup and was determined to prove Kauto Star was the best horse in the world yet you would have thought he was out having a morning stroll. Not one sign of panic on the day he was coolness personified.
I’m a million miles away from most of my old racing pals but still have the occasional chat with some of the lads and I have never known anyone to have anything but praise for the man.
The racing world is a very small place and if your unliked then everyone knows you are. That is not Ruby Walsh.
Ruby Walsh is one of the most poular jockeys ever to grace the turf. The cheers Ruby Ruby Ruby rang out at Cheltenham like Man United had just won the Champions League and Christy Moore had just ended singing the Ballad of Ruby Walsh all at the same moment.
People have the right to dislike anyone they choose but Our Ruby? As Colm Meaney said in the Commitments "That’s blasphemy that is!"
I dont like Man.U either
Never trust a man with a pony tail or someone who can’t spell Sea Pigeon
I have sever doubts if GWilson has actually looked at Mastercraftsman’s form.
Obviously basing his claim the horse needs fast ground on the fact he was beat in France and he looked impressive when beating AC.
I say looked but the fact is the form was let down badly when AC got totally stuffed by Shaweel who MC struggled to beat seems to have slipped past him as has the fact the only time there was any confidence behind MC was in France with give in the ground. That aside AC prior to that race AC beat Intense Focus and it was to be 4 months later before he showed any worthwhile form. The 3rd in MC’s race was said to ran below his best as the race had come just a bit too soon after his previous win.
MC has been flat to the boards to win two of his races. The Form of the race in France runs almost spot on with the form in the UK using Shaweel’s performances as a guide. Only once has he shown form that could be considered guineas standard at that is questionable.
This is no world beater, this is a false favourite who will most liely not win the guineas. He is certainly not outstanding according to AOB who said today he wouldn’t like to put his in pecking order.
The bookies are taking the punters for a ride with this one and it sticks out like a sore thumb.
This is one bad lot of 3 year olds in comparison to last year and Freddy Head can see right throught it hence he is sendding his horse over to take his chance despite the poor record of the French.
That was an honest straightforward admital I got it wrong.
At last FIST admits he was wrong! Thats done your credibility the world of good! Now if we could just lose that Anger that runs through your threads
when people Dare dissagree with you, then we can all have a happy Easter
and bunnys can sleep soundly!! The streets of Bangkok will be filled with
rejoicing punters knowing its safe to go back into Betfleds or Fled Dones!Let’s boogie rent-a-muppet
I couldn’t begin to describe how highly I regard Ruby Walsh.
For me Ruby is the ultimate horseman who conducts himself in an excellent manner.
Our Ruby gives the impression he doesn’t suffer fools glady but as Ian said that does not make him Jack the Ripper.
Greed! can’t be having that. He’s very very competitive and so he should be. All top sportsmen are and if they weren’t they wouldn’t be top sportsmen for long.
He was visibly upset after last years Gold Cup and was determined to prove Kauto Star was the best horse in the world yet you would have thought he was out having a morning stroll. Not one sign of panic on the day he was coolness personified.
I’m a million miles away from most of my old racing pals but still have the occasional chat with some of the lads and I have never known anyone to have anything but praise for the man.
The racing world is a very small place and if your unliked then everyone knows you are. That is not Ruby Walsh.
Ruby Walsh is one of the most poular jockeys ever to grace the turf. The cheers Ruby Ruby Ruby rang out at Cheltenham like Man United had just won the Champions League and Christy Moore had just ended singing the Ballad of Ruby Walsh all at the same moment.
People have the right to dislike anyone they choose but Our Ruby? As Colm Meaney said in the Commitments "That’s blasphemy that is!"
I had a bet on Crowed House who is drifting like a barge and his stable companion is shortening up.
Seen that one before so I am not even tempted to back Delegator as unless he wins the Craven Brian Meehansays Crowded House still might run.
It looks a complete mess to me and nothing really appeals.
I suppose anything trained by AOB must have a chand but I still can’t see him pulling it of this time.
I’m going to get on this Naagoos who lets face it destroyed the AOB hotpot in France.
Freddy Head is no back number and has been truning out top class winners for years.
French horses don’t have a good record in this but when this man sends anything over to the UK we should sit up and take notice.
MD reckons he will shorten up after his race and I think he’s spot on. So time to take the plunge.
7/1 seems too big for a horse with such an obvious chance but damned if I can see anything else worth backing.
