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Not sure you could say its endemic, but there is no doubt where there is money to be made, corruption and skullduggery will exist. And where people are not making big money, but then get the chance to suddenly makea relative fortune like many lower ranked jockeys, trainers and stable staff can, then yes some of them will be tempted.
While Betfair and other exchanges flag up so called suspicious betting patterns, they do also however create furore that shouldn’t always be so, often with no real evidence but a horse drifting badly. That is something the authorities will have to sort out as it doesn’t always help the sport.
But in a nutshell there has always been dodgy goings on in racing, whether it is blatant fixing of races, horses not running to their merits for whatever reason or trainers just trying to stay ahead of the handicapper in order to land a coup later on in the season. Thats just part of the game and something you have to take into account when you bet.It does not help when the defender of corruption, John Francome, stated on The Morning Line – discussing the SCOOP6 –
" I’d like to be in a Jockeys’ Syndicate "
John just does not think before opening his big arrogant mouth. What an arse !
Backing two runners is the relentless pursuit of value. Backing each way is a shortcut to the poor house. Only 7% make a long term profit.
Racing has cheats. It’s so easy and since the Fallon fallout it’s got worse.
Even the better races are vulnerable with 5 or less runners.
If people continue to bet large amounts of money they are either in the know, or are addicted to gamblingRacing has cheats. It’s so easy and since the Fallon fallout it’s got worse.
Even the better races are vulnerable with 5 or less runners.
If people continue to bet large amounts of money they are either in the know, or are addicted to gamblingBetter add "or good form students".
Are you are saying because I can not do it nobody can?Fallon fallout? Fallon was innocent.
Do you think the answer to every question that is asked is guilty?
Mark
The Ginger PreacherValue Is EverythingMark,
I am afraid if you think Fallon was innocent then you certainly look at life through rose tinted glasses. I hasten to add that this is just my opinion and maybe he was but I doubt it.
If you think that everybody who has a case dropped against them or they are found not guilty is innocent then I admire you.
Yes some will undoubtedly be innocent but likewise some will be guilty.
Horse racing is corrupt and always will be, you will never stamp it out and who is to say that some at the top are not in on some of the corruptness that goes on. Who knows?? Not me.
If you gamble it is the risk you take.
Gingertipster
Many racing court cases have collapsed over the years before reaching a jury verdict. It neither confirms innocence nor guilt; merely how difficult it is to prove either way.
Studying the form is an enjoyable activity if you have the time and interest.
In a few races it can be profitable, but, as I’ve seen all too often, the majority of those who gamble large amounts find it difficult to hang on to their winnings and the bookmaker gets it back plus more.I still think those who genuinely make money from gambling (not those who only talk about their wins) are either in the know (I’m being polite here), or very controlled and selective.
No idea
Good to read and spot on.
Gingertipster
Many racing court cases have collapsed over the years before reaching a jury verdict. It neither confirms innocence nor guilt; merely how difficult it is to prove either way.
Studying the form is an enjoyable activity if you have the time and interest.
In a few races it can be profitable, but, as I’ve seen all too often, the majority of those who gamble large amounts find it difficult to hang on to their winnings and the bookmaker gets it back plus more.I still think those who genuinely make money from gambling (not those who only talk about their wins) are either in the know (I’m being polite here), or very controlled and selective.
No idea
Good to read and spot on.
Nor, No Idea,
The reason why trials collapse before a jury gives a verdict is because there is no case to answer, or that it will only cost a needless amount of money to proceed to an obvious not guilty verdict.
Hope neither of you ever find youselves in court. I am sure you would not like it if people thought in the same way as you. A trumped up rape charge perhaps. They took him to court therefore he must be guilty. Did either of you sit in court listening to every word said in the Fallon case?
If not then please accept the decision.No Idea, I sugest you change the first line of your post just in case it gets you and TRF in trouble.
Mark
The Ginger PreacherValue Is Everything
- Total Posts 17716
The idiocy of the rape comparison aside, Ginge, I don’t think any other word than ‘naive’ can be used to describe your approach to racing – or at least the honesty of those who exist within it.
I only wish we were all treated to the black and white sport that you are.
The idiocy of the rape comparison aside, Ginge, I don’t think any other word than ‘naive’ can be used to describe your approach to racing – or at least the honesty of those who exist within it.
I only wish we were all treated to the black and white sport that you are.
Equi,
"Idiocy" you say, only idiots would believe they knew more than a judge and jury just by reading a few extracts in a newspaper.When a person goes though the trauma of a trial only for the case to be thrown out; I believe they should not then have people saying or writing "I think he was guilty anyway".Or words to that effect. At least not in a public arena.
The reference to rape was to bring it home to them how they themselves might feel.
I am not so naive to think racing is whiter than white, some skulduggery does go on as I have already intimated. I do not believe it is as widespread as most punters seem to.
Mark
The Ginger PreacherValue Is EverythingStrange topic for my first post but here goes.
It’s no secret that racing is institutionally ‘less than straight’, the very existance of the handicap system means that trainers have to play a game in order to get their horses on winnable marks. There’s no point in pretending that every horse in a race will be 100% all out to win because they aren’t. Then you have the whole schooling in public debate, jockeys holding back horses, laying on betfair etc etc
What we should do is take it as granted that the sport is institutionally corrupt and then do everything to cut the corruption down. A viewpoint that the powers that be within racing probably do take already.
Can’t believe really that on a racing forum with considered posters, people will come on here and proclaim that the sport isn’t bent!
The point is, sixfieldsboy, what IS the point of depressing everyone with a thread as pointless and self-destructive as this?
All the usual suspects are here; (the losers, the coolers who could jinx King Midas) all of the them bashing rotting planks on their foreheads and dribbling onto their cassocks.
Why not start a thread about strange football results? There were four this weekend which, to be frank, need the attention of the authorities. Half the teams weren’t off a yard and the exchanges make it simple to lay a good chunk bigger than the win bonus. Ditto cricket, snooker etc.
Are you watching 415? Listen to Gary Selby. If ever there was a man who enjoys racing it’s this fella. It’s a pleasure to listen to his knowledge and enthusiasm – far more of a pleasure than reading one syllable of this lamentable exercise in self-flagellation.
Welcome to the forum by the way.
Jumps or flat, sir?Corruption in racing is deep and wide spread. If your definition of corruption, is a horse either being pulled or lined up for a plot so connections can land a punt, then i would say 70% involved in racing are upto this.
If your saying corruption is a owner/trainer/jockey betting on a horse to lose or getting that horse beat, then i would say no more than 2% in racing are upto this.
Day in day out, im told of horses not fancied and that will not be winning today, nothing funny from jockey or trainer. Just that they know it will not be winning. I see nothing wrong in this aslong as horse trying and put into the race.
Again several times a week im told of connections having a punt with their horse, some win, some lose….. again nothing wrong with that imo.
I have guys well connected with most of yards in flat and jumping racing. Only once was i told of a trainer that fittef into the 2% group above, that trainer is very well known national hunt trainer, and people would not be suprised if i named him(of course i won’t).
But jist of this was, Trainer A jockey A were betting on Horse B, Trainer of horse B was also bet on by trainer B. As Trainer A’s horse was only danger, It was baiscally free money for them all, and a touch was landed at 6/4-2/1. Now jockey of horse A was criticised for not putting the horse in the race that day.
Thats only time i have been aware of anything dodgy really going on, i have no problem with owners or trainers getting a horse lined up for plot.
Corruption in racing is deep and wide spread. If your definition of corruption, is a horse either being pulled or lined up for a plot so connections can land a punt, then i would say 70% involved in racing are upto this.
RI
You may be a ‘Racing Insider’, though forgive my cynicism if I have my doubts, but the suggestion that 70% are involved in ‘pulling horses’ or ‘lining them up for a plot’ is complete and utter cobblers!
There are plenty of horses running each day that aren’t going to win, but it’s because they aren;t good enough and being racehorses have to run somewhere.
Rob
Thats load of bull from my point of view. Easy to run a horse on wrong ground,class,distance and track etc…. Lets not forget running them when not fully fit, or running them after overworking em on gallops etc… Majority of people n racing, are in it to make money, so you have got to expect them to try and land a punt every so often. I have no problem with it, and is what makes our sport great.
Certainly know when im a owner, it will be all about landing a few punts and enjoying the sport. Not trying to win a 3k race.
Majority of people n racing, are in it to make money,
If you think that you are living in dreamland.
For most owners racing can never be anything more than an expensive hobby. As I said in a previous post, there may have been many ‘strokes’ pulled back in 60s and 70s, but it simply doesn’t happen on a wide scale now. There’s too much policing of the game.
It used to be the case that many horses were run blatantly fat and unfit, but from my observations in recent years suggest it’s only small degrees of fitness variation now, which by the nature of the job of training a racehorse is going to be so anyway. Most horses will be building towards a fitness peak, particularly in jump racing.
Running horses on the wrong ground, class, distance or going may be to hide its form and there’s nothing fundamentally wrong with that anyway as I’ve stated on many occasions on this forum. There is a reverse argument to this though, and that is that trainers often have a probelm with placement of horses. If you have a fit horse many times you may be forced into running it under conditions which don’t absolutely suit because of lack of opportunities on the programme. Mulling this over one week I remember setting myself the imaginary task of placing a three year oldmiler in the high 70s who was fit and ready to run. There were only three possible races in the week under scrutiny and even then it depended on going and course suitability. What may be perceived as hiding a horses form may in fact be a case of a fit horse being run where it can be.
I follow the Scottish National Hunt scene closely and see many horses which realisitically can’t win the races they are in. However, this has much to do with the fact that owners and trainers are based in Scotland and wish to see their horses run at local courses. Sometimes they find races to suit their charges, but often it’s a case of getting a nearest fit, or failing all else entering in whatever race they are eligible for. Some of the entries in Novice and Maiden events up here don’t have a chance of winning barring accidents, and I do sometimes wonder why they are on a racecourse, but I wouldn’t like to stop their connections having a go. Similarly many of the handicappers run under conditions which don’t suit, because there’s nothing else for them to run in, but that doesn’t mean connectinos are ‘pulling a stroke’.
Rob
Your talking about the casual owners and syndicate owners. The biggest owners in racing love a punt, and they have more money thaan sense. Horse racing has and will always be associated for with money/gambling. Without gambling the sport finishes. Because i certainly would not watch a class 6 seller at wolverhampton on saturday evening for the fun of it!
Jumps or flat, sir?
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