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For me the most pertinent question is who paid for the steroids?
Did Al Zarooni pay for them out of his own pocket?
If so that is very altruistic of him.
Presuming the drugs were purchased "legitimately" in Dubai there will be receipts available.
Those substances are legal in Dubai so receipts would be meaningless Paul wouldn’t it? So what if Godolphin or Zarooni have a pile of receipts from Dubai? Wouldn’t prove anything IMO.
Where are the vets in all this? Henderson’s vet was dealt with in no uncertain fashion but I haven’t seen much about the vets here.
Do Godolphin employ their own vets?
What about stable staff? Head lads, etc?
It seems beyond credence that Zarooni was slipping into boxes unnoticed and injecting steroids without a single person knowing.
Funnily enough I’m dual-reading the biographies of Bull and Bird (again) at the minute and there are sections in both about the days of the doping gangs when trainers were often unfairly held wholly accountable, their careers and lives ruined, at the hands of the Jockey Club who would accept no mitigation in cases where horses had been ‘got at’.
The Jockey Club, eh. What would they have done? Thank the Good Lord above, we’ll never know the answer to that one.
Those substances are legal in Dubai so receipts would be meaningless Paul wouldn’t it? So what if Godolphin or Zarooni have a pile of receipts from Dubai? Wouldn’t prove anything IMO.
You wouldn’t make a very good detective David
lol – Miss Marple maybe!
My point is that even if Godolphin unearthed some receipts for said substances from Dubai they could legitimately claim they were for legal usage. What would it tell us? The smoking gun would be an email or text message with written instruction to trainer. Nothing could be more unlikely to turn up, you’d think.
And I note from review of the entire press conference with Crisford that three other staff and a vet’s assistant have been implicated by Godolphin.
lol – Miss Marple maybe!
My point is that even if Godolphin unearthed some receipts for said substances from Dubai they could legitimately claim they were for legal usage. What would it tell us? The smoking gun would be an email or text message with written instruction to trainer. Nothing could be more unlikely to turn up, you’d think.
Don’t you believe it. There would / should be a strong audit trail – relatively easy to follow if Al Zarooni wanted to cooperate – a bit more difficult, but not impossible, to follow if he chose not to.
Also if, as claimed, Al Zarooni, was acting on his own initiative it would be in Godolphins interest to find / produce the receipts themselves.
And I note from review of the entire press conference with Crisford that three other staff and a vet’s assistant have been implicated by Godolphin.
On a technicality – they were implicated by Al Zarooni. Tow foremen and a vets assistant. The latter is not a qualified vet either.
The Jockey Club, eh. What would they have done? Thank the Good Lord above, we’ll never know the answer to that one.
The Drinks cabinet would have been emptied by now……….A mere stones throw from the JC Headquarters a hienous act perpetrated by those bloody Arab fellows has taken place on Jockey Club turf…
Major Farquhar foreskin Crum pours another G&T and turns to Lieutenant Boo boo Smithy Smithurst and says "That ‘Crisford’ fellow thinks he’s bloody Laurence of Arabia,I said back in Damascus never to trust those that slept with Camels and Crisfords certainly got the hump now Smithy Old bean" (Chuckles)……."What on earth are we going to do with him"? "The Bounders let us down" replies Boo boo,"We gave that lot an Ascot Gold cup when
Kayf Tara
took out
Far Cry
and it will be a Far Cry till they get another now" (more Chuckles).Less of that retorts the Major we’ve far more pressing things to think about as the Cucumber Sandwiches arrive………..Sir Marks got one running in a maiden at Wolverhampton!!
lol – Miss Marple maybe!
Hmm, **
looks around furtively
** highly suspicious stuff…
We saw him smoking by the newspaper stand
there’s something odd about his gloved left hand
Saw him again inside the old cafe
he makes us tense we wish he’d go away
We are detective
we are select
We are detective
come to collectMike
Crisford has come out of this horribly. Basically thinks it is not his fault in the slightest, and he deflects any accountability what so offer. Painful. He’s the Racing Manager.
Apologies if someone has already stated this. Can’t believe MAZ was administering the drugs alone and that they must have been several other people in the stable who knew what was going on (and I assume knew that it was illegal), but then omitted to tell another member of the Godolfin management.
If Crisford really didn’t know then there must be a few others facing the sack
absolutely; there is no way this was a one-person operation. Administering drugs on this kind of systematic basis requires considerable organisation, and must have been widely known inside Godolphin
If they received sufficient doses the racehorse’s appearance would have been more muscular; remember Flo-Jo and the East German women athletes?talking about horses who are outwardly muscular, black caviar, frankel and sprinter sacre spring to mind. of course the likelihood is that’s just their natural state but you do wonder
hannon’s guineas horse also looks like a bit of a bull
I was surprised to see Simon Crisford sitting alongside Paul Bittar at the press conference. I could see why he would have wanted to be there – the position implied that he was among the official investigating team, and distanced him from any suggestion of culpability. But really he was a key player in the organisation being investigated.
If ever the finger is put on Simon it will be put on the Sheik so the BRA have to tread very softly.Would Simon withhold critical information from the Sheik and ally himself with the trainer even though he admits he selected the trainer for the Sheik? I don’t think so.So Simon failed his purview.If the Sheik wishes to continue racing in England Simon will have to go,no question about it.People in Dubai must wonder how their wealth is being dissipated.
If ever the finger is put on Simon it will be put on the Sheik so the BRA have to tread very softly.
Why should the BRA (sic) have to tread carefully – they shouldn’t.
However they, unfortunately, are doing so, which again is doing little to help their credibility.
You can bet your bottom dollar had it been a smaller, they wouldn’t actually say less significant, organisation they would have gone in all guns blazing.
As Bittar has said, to his utmost shame, the BHA have had to deal with the matter sensitively.
Paul , lots of unanswered questions indeed however I have sympathy for Bittar , as he is damned either way he turns in this case
Its clear they want Sheik Mohammed to continue his unbelievable support for our racing , but at what cost , what precedents that are set now will affect us in the future ???
A fine mess indeed , I bet Mr Roy is happy to be exiting ,,,,
as for Joe Punter , I remain convinced this will be a big factor on how he treats his betting from now on, that is sensible Joe , not the loons that bet on cartoons and shove their last tenner on red on the roulette ….they dont know or care
Imo
Ricky
If ever the finger is put on Simon it will be put on the Sheik so the BRA have to tread very softly.
Why should the BRA (sic) have to tread carefully – they shouldn’t.
However they, unfortunately, are doing so, which again is doing little to help their credibility.
You can bet your bottom dollar had it been a smaller, they wouldn’t actually say less significant, organisation they would have gone in all guns blazing.
As Bittar has said, to his utmost shame, the BHA have had to deal with the matter sensitively.
But the BHA have not acted in the manner you expected when faced with the Gerard Butler case. I would contend that his is a smaller and less significant organization than Godolphin. They have not “gone in all guns blazing”. They have had the evidence in their possesion since July 2012, when they asked for, and received, the veterinary records for all his horses. It would be a great surprise (I hope) if they did not know what they were looking for, or did not recognize it when they saw it. They have had Butler’s co-operation throughout, during which he has told them that his vets used a product, that he now knows to be a banned product, on some of his horses last summer. He has also told them, and the press, that he himself administered the same product to four of his horses, and did not enter the fact onto their veterinary record, because he knew that the BHA was fully aware of its use in his stable and had not objected.
I think the BHA’s sensitivity has been extensive in the Butler case, and perhaps somewhat less so in the Al Zarooni case. No-one on the Forum has been calling for everyone in the Butler case to be identified, investigated, summarily dismissed, banned from running their horses, or struck off the veterinary register; not to mention questioning the integrity of their business associates.
If ever the finger is put on Simon it will be put on the Sheik so the BRA have to tread very softly.
Why should the BRA (sic) have to tread carefully – they shouldn’t.
However they, unfortunately, are doing so, which again is doing little to help their credibility.
You can bet your bottom dollar had it been a smaller, they wouldn’t actually say less significant, organisation they would have gone in all guns blazing.
As Bittar has said, to his utmost shame, the BHA have had to deal with the matter sensitively.
But the BHA have not acted in the manner you expected when faced with the Gerard Butler case. I would contend that his is a smaller and less significant organization than Godolphin. They have not “gone in all guns blazing”. They have had the evidence in their possesion since July 2012, when they asked for, and received, the veterinary records for all his horses. It would be a great surprise (I hope) if they did not know what they were looking for, or did not recognize it when they saw it. They have had Butler’s co-operation throughout, during which he has told them that his vets used a product, that he now knows to be a banned product, on some of his horses last summer. He has also told them, and the press, that he himself administered the same product to four of his horses, and did not enter the fact onto their veterinary record, because he knew that the BHA was fully aware of its use in his stable and had not objected.
I think the BHA’s sensitivity has been extensive in the Butler case, and perhaps somewhat less so in the Al Zarooni case. No-one on the Forum has been calling for everyone in the Butler case to be identified, investigated, summarily dismissed, banned from running their horses, or struck off the veterinary register; not to mention questioning the integrity of their business associates.
I don’t think the Al Zarooni and Butler cases are in any way comparable, save the use of anabolic steroids.
The Butler case is still being investigated so there is no need to call for naming of names yet – the only reason the BHA have acknowledged there is an investigation is because Butler has gone public. When or if the full facts of this case have come into the public domain then the appropriate questions can and undoubtedly will be asked.
In the Butler case the BHA are clearly carrying out a long and detailed investigation, which is in stark contrast to the Al Zarooni case where the whole affair has been fast tracked with seemingly indecent haste – certainly before the BHA has completed a full and proper inquiry.
To me it looks as though the BHA is handling the Butler case in a textbook manner, whilst in the Al Zarooni case they are kowtowing to Mo and his mob and working to his agenda so as not to upset him.
As I said before, The Godolphin operation is "Too Big to Fail". Most important that Justice be seen to be done.But not done.Where would Newmarket be if Godolphin were banned for eight years? Cannot have the Godolphin operation be divided between France and Ireland can we? To pull out of Newmarket would be an admission of complete failure by The Sheik.Not a loss of face he can afford.
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