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I’m not entirely sure what you’re getting at, Ginge, but if you’re talking about the proofing of tipping lines the Racing Post does it for some lines that wish to advertise in the paper and presumably they have a means of validating the prices stated by said tipsters.
Sorry a common misonception the RP don’t proof the claims although many tipsters claim they do. The other point is that WINNING coups are much more difficult and far between than losing ones after all no matter how well you may think you’ve got your horse handicapped there’s always the possiblity that someone else has done it better. So in this respect Betfair have a lot to answer for.The other problem is that racing thrives on conspiracy theories it’s a large part of the appeal that ‘someone knows something’ nudge nudge. The fact is however if you stop and think for a moment there are a dozen or so ‘in the know’ about other runners in the same race. All this is why of course tipsters make a fortune out of gullible punters. The other misconception is that trainers and jockeys know when the horses are going to win- wrong not a clue most of them although they can be more positive about when they are going to lose.Basically I agree with what mostly been said already where there’s money to be made there will always be corruption and attempts at it but I don’t believe it’s on a massive scale or necessarily all that sucessful..Final thoughts before boring you all to death except in a couple of cases (McKeon for one) all the others seemed to rest on jockeys giving information although not being accused of riding offences in which case it’s either just an opinion or the trainer has indicated that something’s wrong otherwise how can it be privileged ?Anyway judging by the SP of some of this alleged information it’s the people that paid for it that were being ripped off.
"Corm – the only part of the TDF that’s corrupt is the drug taking"
Not your finest hour IS!
Venusion
You can’t name names guilty of corruption unless evidence is watertight.
The libel laws in this country are draconian. I wonder why.
As for reporting anything to the authorities, some have to no avail.Gingertipster
Most trainers, jockeys and owners are trustworthy people who do a fine job. But I do wish those who are found guilty of cheating are not allowed back in to our sport. And that owners do not send horses for such trainers to train. No horses no trainer. There are so many trainers who
keep within the rules who deserve an opportunity, without owners giving a second chance to those who have already transgressed. But I suppose some owners might be attracted to the thought of bending the rules or pulling wool.I wonder how many trainers you have worked for, ridden for, or had horses with. I agree with your sentiments on the lack of punishment for offenders and this is what unfortunately encourages others to join them, or have to do so for survival.
Surely it’s not difficult to define a tipster – someone that is paid money for providing tips.
Racing is about as straight as a corkscrew.
I can’t believe anyone still thinks of it as a "sport", any more than politics, show-business, or FOBTs are just "games".‘Tis a racket, and I love it!
Not least how can the BHA have any authority over tipsters when tipsters are not licensed.
If you are proposing a licence scheme then how do you define a tipster?
If, for example, I do a race preview in a hospitality box before racing are you suggesting I should be licensed and proof my tips with the BHA in advance?
A tipster is simply one who demands £xxx from you in exchange for a tip or tips. Now I realise this could be construed as a too vague all-encompassing definition but it strikes me that there is a clear distinction to be made between those tipsters who try to drum up business by submitting un-audited profits in glossy adverts (paper, TV or mailshot) and those such as yourself who provide an entertaining ‘race preview’ service live at a racecourse or other event such as the numerous pre-Cheltenham preview shin-digs
A legally-binding licence is probably outside the remit of the BHA but my idea of a (voluntary) register of tipsters wouldn’t be. Much like membership of IBAS or in the real world gas fitters who wish to be part of the CORGI scheme.
Membership of a ‘BHA Approved Tipster’ scheme would allow the paying public to at least place some trust in the service knowing it has been monitored and the profits advertised are true
I do agree that in practice there will be numerous loopholes the devious could utilise and as such I’ve no wish to pursue any further what was no more than an idea plucked from thin air and probably untenable. Food for thought only.
I’ll close by saying that I personally find the scourge of dubious tipsters far more annoying than the scant ‘corrupt’ running of horses and I can only agree with Kentdougal’s words
The other problem is that racing thrives on conspiracy theories it’s a large part of the appeal that ‘someone knows something’ nudge nudge
Unfortunately, you cannot exactly regulate the integrity of racing by say, housing everything involved with the sport under a casino roof with 350,000 digital eyes and 20 human ones tracking every muscle twitch one makes.
Or, protect the integrity with every visitor to a racecourse, betting shop, stable etc etc with customs and immigration checkpoints.
Silly examples and very vague, but if you get the drift, then you know what I’m talking about.
Where there is so much money to be won, tax-free, within minutes … there is addiction and greed, and punters will do anything to salvage more of the folding stuff.
So, there is corruption. It might be part of the fabric of racing, but it is not overwhelming the industry.
In a way, it’s "fun" (for lack of a better word). Racing might be bent, but if you can bend it to the advantage of oneself? Rewards aplenty!
Each to their own, I suppose.
Another point is that if it was not for the fact you can fiddle about a bit with a horse and go for a touch, how many current owners would never have gotten involved?
There are a huge amount of owners who buy horses in the hope of having a touch….of course the ultimate dream is to buy one for 5.000 quid and win the CH but that just doesn’t happen.
Trainers have to try and accomodate these type of owners or they wouldn’t be in business very long.
Martin Pipe and side kick Chester Barnes attracted hundreds of new owners into the game due to the fact they pulled of some real big gambles and a few strokes to go with it.
Martin Pipe wasn’t slow to push the fact his stable was a gambling one and built a huge string based on just that. Mny many punters bought horses and put them with the man because they wanted in on the scene.
I’m not saying Martin Pipe was bent or corrupt but at a guess I think more than a few had quiete runs ……
MIck Lambert pulled of a huge gamble on Little Owl and 2 other horse when he was travelling head lad with Easterby. He started his own yard with the winnings and owners flocked to him most of whom were mad punters with a few quid.
Without the Martin Pipes and the Mick Lamberts of the racing world and without the "all part of the game fiddling about" for want of a better phrase, racing would be a lot worse off IMO.
As a certain irish codger is reported to have replied to his confessor when queried if he cheated with his horses."Father I came here to confess my sins not to discuss my business".So be it.
I was walking through Hatherden wednesday morning and saw a horse working with Crack Away Jack. This horse (who I will name tomorrow) went equally, if not better than the Champion Hurdle favourite. I have it on good authority from a stable lad there, they were carrying the same weights. he asures me there is nothing wrong with CAJ and this novice hurdler has been running over the wrong trip. Looks something special.
Have also been through the form of the Ascot Hurdle (taken a couple of hours) and found a horse who is twice the price it should be. Bets like this do not come around very often, outstanding value.
Now look at these two. Most punters would be far more likely to be interested in the first horse. Wanting to know who this brilliant novice is, so they can get on. On the other hand I’d probably get posts like "you sad man", for the form horse. Punters want to think they are in the know about one laid out for a betting coup.
Just to make absolutely clear, I made the two stories up.
Mark
Value Is Everything10 pts for any of you who can spot the deliberate mistake (if it was deliberate) in the first paragraph of Ginge’s fairy story
Venusian,
you are the epitomy of what i would describe a "Mug Punter". its people like you who fall off their seats when somebody tells you something
that your not conditioned to hearing everyday! e.g "Exotic Dancer has just beaten Kauto Star for the 1st time"! How will you cope with that? will you report it to the authorities because something like that just cant happen!
NO it happens, so just accept it. racing is full of endless surprises, some
occur naturally, some with the encouragement/assistance of jockeys!
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I think you need to review your racing dictionary, Mr Wilson.
Venusian,
you are the epitomy of what i would describe a "Mug Punter". its people like you who fall off their seats when somebody tells you something
that your not conditioned to hearing everyday! e.g "Exotic Dancer has just beaten Kauto Star for the 1st time"! How will you cope with that? will you report it to the authorities because something like that just cant happen!
NO it happens, so just accept it. racing is full of endless surprises, some
occur naturally, some with the encouragement/assistance of jockeys!What on earth are you babbling about?
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