The home of intelligent horse racing discussion
The home of intelligent horse racing discussion

Derby 2017

Home Forums Big Races – Discussion Derby 2017

Viewing 17 posts - 154 through 170 (of 641 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1298467
    LostSoldier3
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 1874

    We didn’t push Cracksman out Steve, left it unchanged. It’d be a bit flinchy to change the price off the back of that.

    With the brilliant Cliffs Of Moher, the Guineas and almost a dozen other recognised trials to come, there’s plenty of time for big contenders to emerge. They always do.

    #1298474
    Avatar photoTriptych
    Participant
    • Total Posts 18718

    Watching your video replay Steve thought Cracksman handled the course really well and think John Gosden would be happy with that run. Not ideal in the fact that he was disappointed when trying to make his first run and Permian took his ground, but the fact that Frankie switched him, got him balanced and pegged Permian back at the last gasp proved that this horse is a definite contender and should have no problem getting the extra 2 furlongs.

    Every time I see him run I think of Mark Johnston’s fantastic filly Attraction, it’s part of who he is nothing sinister about it.

    Well done Steve and to everyone else who backed him :good: :good:

    Frankel is moving closer and closer to getting his first UK Group winner this year,
    I’m hoping it comes in the 2000 Guineas. :whistle:

    Things turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...
    #1298475
    LostSoldier3
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 1874

    Every time I see him run I think of Mark Johnston’s fantastic filly Attraction, it’s part of who he is nothing sinister about it.

    Really good comparison.

    #1298477
    mickeyjp
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1976

    I don’t see Churchill staying the Derby trip at all, he might get 10F but that is a very big doubt as his dam (Meow) never ran further than 5F and her dam was the top class sprinter Airwave who did manage to win once at a mile but the furthest any of her progeny has ever won over is an extended 9F.

    Churchill runs as if he will stay at least 10f and aiden has said they would be hopeful he would. Order of the garter looks to be a live derby horse and through him cliffs of moher. As usual with ballydoyle I’d wait until chester to see how they see the future for the derby. If aiden has a cracking chester then you can expect a decent horse for the derby. Admit it even more muddled in the market and a Kate improver looks the most likely winner. Harzand and golden horn weren’t quoted at this timebof the season.

    #1298488
    Avatar photoCharlesOlney
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2031

    Eminem, the horse that finished 5th in the race Permian finished 3rd in at Bath on Good Friday, did bolt up in the last race of the day and the Johnston colt was conceding 2 stone to that one so the form looks solid.

    Cracksman beat what I think is a very underestimated horse, just a shame that Permian was by some way my bet of the week!

    #1298489
    Avatar photostevecaution
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 8241

    Looking back at the Dewhurst won by Churchill he reminded me of Dawn Approach.

    He runs as if he has the choke out most of the way and, like Dawn Approach, he has the knack of finding enough to wear down his opponents in the closing stages.

    I am not sure he could sustain that sort of travelling style over the Derby distance. Dawn Approach infamously would not settle to a Derby pace when he went to Epsom and I would have a little concern on that score with Churchill. You need a horse willing to lob at a more sedate pace and then strike in the last 3 furlongs, or later if the jockey is daring enough.

    The trend is strong for Guineas winners not following up in the Derby and Churchill seems to have at least three promising colts, who are unbeaten and who impressed in their trials, that look like they could make life tough for him in the Guineas. Churchill could be as good as O’Brien says he is but other “Best colt ever” contenders have failed and I am not seeing much other than “Orderofthegarter” and “Cliffs Of Moher” who I could put forward as candidates for Aidan’s second best colt.

    There is time enough, as Lost Soldier 3 says, for others to emerge but it is going to have to start happening over the next couple of weeks and assessing the market in two weeks time we will probably see more colts ruled OUT than IN.

    Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

    #1298509
    LD73
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4135

    I know it is not an exact science but the breeding is not encouraging for either Orderofthegarter & Cliffs Of Moher getting the Derby trip:

    Orderofthegarter – Third foal; closely related to 6f 2yo winner Icy Lady (RPR 88); dam 6f (at 2) and 7f winner (104), half-sister to 7f AW winner Fernando Torres out of 6f winner/Irish 1,000 fourth sister to 6f and 1m 2yo Group 1 winner Spartacus.

    Cliffs Of Moher First foal; dam 5f AW 2yo winner (RPR 80), closely related to Listed winners Look At Me (8.4f) and Francis Of Assisi (7f) out of 1m Group 3 winner/French Oaks third sister to Henrythenavigator

    If Aiden doesn’t have some 3 yr olds lurking in the yard that were too backward to run at 2 but are waiting to breakout we could have to look elsewhere for the Derby winner.

    #1298595
    Avatar photothejudge1
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2251

    MONARCHS GLEN is a short priced fav for the classic trial, however I don’t think he’s as invulnerable as Cracksman perhaps was earlier in the week, I see this race as more open, and I’m going to go for FIERCE IMPACT to provide an upset :good:

    #1298641
    Avatar photoKwadan
    Participant
    • Total Posts 35

    Looking for a strong run from Cunco to boost Coronets form from the Zetland as the 3rd placed gave Cracksman a good run for his money

    #1298643
    Avatar photohein bollow
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 986

    Cunco did it!
    This is really expressive about Coronet’s excellent performance and I still believe in her, no matter what was quoted here..

    #1298644
    Avatar photoviktors89
    Participant
    • Total Posts 325

    Cunco won but it didn’t look a strong race to me

    #1298645
    Avatar photoKwadan
    Participant
    • Total Posts 35

    Gosden should follow his initial gut instinct and run her in the Oaks.

    #1298653
    LD73
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4135

    A John Gosden stable tour piece on the RUK website says that Coronet heads to the G1 Prix Saint Alary next month

    #1298656
    Avatar photohein bollow
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 986

    Iknow, Steve has quoted that already, but who knows if the owners wouldn’t decide to run her in the Oaks as well?

    #1298670
    LD73
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4135

    The Prix Saint Alary is generally a trial for the French Oaks and with Gosden also having Shutter Speed, Enable & Gracious Diana to juggle as well – maybe Coronet is a little bit behind the others with regards to being ready to run and he doesn’t want to rush her.

    #1298673
    Avatar photoKwadan
    Participant
    • Total Posts 35

    But the fact that they are ready to throw her straight into a Group 1 race should say something, unless of course French Group 1’s are not as competitive as the ones in the UK. Dont want to believe her racing colours have anything to do with her prepping to race in France now

    #1298683
    LD73
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4135

    The main French Oaks contenders tend to go to the 1000g so maybe he thinks it will be an opportunity to get more black type and they usually are small field races.

    You could actually argue that it is a bigger risk to run her in this race which has over £140k to the winner (over a recognised lower level Oaks trial) when her form (Cunco scrambled home today to give it a boost) doesn’t warrant starting off in such a race.

    I would imagine the race will tells us what path she is likely to take.

Viewing 17 posts - 154 through 170 (of 641 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.