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I thought the stewards got it spot on reversing the placings and taking no action against JM.
Whilst I don’t for one minute think that JM veered left on purpose there is an arguement that Alessandro Volta should have been placed 5th instead of 4th by the stewards. After looking at the replay several times he certainly stopped Curtain Call in it’s tracks.
It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if the race took place in the UK with the stewards decision as I doubt that JM would have got off scott free without a ban of some degree.
I also don’t understand how Curtain Call wasn’t placed ahead of Alessandro Volta. Seemed to be impeded far more than Tartan Bearer.
The reason I had asked if there were any hard luck stories was my mate had called his mate for the result. And his mate (who had backed tartan bearer) believed he was robbed by coolmore team tactics. I thought I’d get a general consensus.
My mate (who also fancied tartan bearer) was trying to say that Frozen Fire had no form in the book to suggest that he could win. When you look at what was between Tartan Bearer and Frozen Fire in the dante, if you were willing to forgive Frozen Fire for a below par run in the derby, he had every chance today at 16 times the price of TB.
Interestingly enough, I felt that Johnny Murtagh and Alessandro Volta had robbed me in the Lingfield Derby Trial when he pushed the better travelling King Of Rome (who would have been my best bet this season if winning that day) extremely wide off the turn. Perhaps it is something to do with the horse.
Interestingly IMO also, how many times now has murtagh called the wrong horse for coolmore, Halfwaytoheaven, Moonstone and now Frozen Fire.
Enough people talk about coolmore team tactics but dont think they really play that way. I generally believe that when O’brien puts out multiple horses he has less chance of winnning, he usually does better when he only runs a strongly fancied one.
I was surprised that Murtagh switched his whip to his right.
I don’t think the horse was going to hit the rail and he could have run it straight up the line.
(though, I suspect it would have been caught)
However, I don’t think Murtagh had any idea where the 1st and 2nd were when this was going on.
(or, if he did know where the 2nd placed horse was, he didn’t realise it was going to make a run)
But, accident or not, his mistake won the race for his team and I don’t think that that can be acceptable. I’d like to see a ruling where horses are coupled in the stewards room and, if one is demoted, they all are.
Steve
Messy, unsatisfactory race. The silence over the Curragh seemed to say it all. I thought Curtain Call was hard done by, by the stewards but after the Magna Cum Laude and Streets of Gold affairs you wouldnt expect them to do the right thing now would you?
The stuff about JM causing deliberate interference is nonsense imo.
Thought Ted Walsh’s comment re the interference in the Derby ¨Jaysus they were ducking in the stands¨ was priceless
Ballydoyle have never had an incident of team tactics like the Give The Slip one where he actually pushed Fantastic Lights main rival (Galileo) wide. Neither Honoured Guest or Hindu Kush effected any of the rest of the field, including his or her own stablemates.
We need pacemakers in these races…I dont know about you but I dont want them falling back or impeading the best horses. I have no problem with them letting their stablemates through once they are not effecting another horse which they have not.
If we dont have them in the race we will instead have slowly run French like races with lots of unlucky horses.
I was surprised that Murtagh switched his whip to his right.
I don’t think the horse was going to hit the rail and he could have run it straight up the line.
(though, I suspect it would have been caught)
However, I don’t think Murtagh had any idea where the 1st and 2nd were when this was going on.
(or, if he did know where the 2nd placed horse was, he didn’t realise it was going to make a run)
But, accident or not, his mistake won the race for his team and I don’t think that that can be acceptable. I’d like to see a ruling where horses are coupled in the stewards room and, if one is demoted, they all are.
Steve
I remember the inquiry into Ivan Denisovich causing interference to Librettist and Frankie Dettori. Pretty sure (from that incident) the rules state something about stating pre race whether the horse is a pacesetter or whether the horse is there with a serious chance. Think that was the case with Ivan Denisovich, and it is undoubtably the case with Allessandro Volta. Coolmores Number 1 was riding, the horse was placed and disqualified and he undoubtably was fancied to win.
It is a big day for Frozen Fire nonetheless, and credit where credit is due, whatever murtagh has done, Frozen Fire done nothing wrong and won an Irish Derby by two lengths.
The Ascot race was nothing short of a joke. Dettori spat the dummy out…he gave Librettist an awful ride getting him stuck out wide and then to blame someone he launched into Heffernan. I dont remember Coolmore complaining after the Galileo/Fantastic Light Irish Champion. Speaking of which…take a look at the move on the bend…
Thats how I saw it too Aiden. Think that was just Heffernan catching the wrong end of frankie on the second half of a second consecutive bad season for him and Godolphin. As if Librettist would ever have beaten George Washington in the shape he was in that day.
The only controversy is whether Alessandro Volta should have been put behind Curtain call and I think he should have been.
The idea that Murtagh deliberately caused interference is laughable unless AOB has taught the horse to veer under a whip.
SHL
Since the horse was moving away from the whip why did Murtagh go back to the right hand a second time when the horse was back on the rail?I am not a jockey so can be enlightened.
NB to understand the Irish stewards is to understand the unintelligible.
See ATR "Westlake" July4 2007. He was allowed keep the race!.Now see "Tuscan Evening" (or "Mad about You")May 25 2008….she,TE was relegated in a group one race right out of the black type.Go figure. It’s who you know in Ireland. Murtagh should have been placed behind "Curtain Call" if the stewards were honest about it.Ballydoyle have never had an incident of team tactics like the Give The Slip one where he actually pushed Fantastic Lights main rival (Galileo) wide. Neither Honoured Guest or Hindu Kush effected any of the rest of the field, including his or her own stablemates.
We need pacemakers in these races…I dont know about you but I dont want them falling back or impeading the best horses. I have no problem with them letting their stablemates through once they are not effecting another horse which they have not.
Aidan,
If we dont have them in the race we will instead have slowly run French like races with lots of unlucky horses.
What about the QEII when ballydoyle’s pacemaker pushed Librettist wide on the bend? Weren’t Ballydoyle warned over their future conduct, if I remember right.
What about when their paqcemakers in the Eclipse? Both suddenly dropped anchor, possibly in an attempt to trap Notnowcato and Authorised in a pocket. Slowing it down for the miler George W. If it was not for Ryan Moore being slightly wider it may have paid off.
Pacemakers must do their best to win the race, that is in the rules of racing. I have no problem with pacemakers as long as this is the case.
If they go wide (not the most direct route) then unless searching for better ground, they are plainly not doing their best to win.Ginge
Value Is EverythingSince the horse was moving away from the whip why did Murtagh go back to the right hand a second time when the horse was back on the rail?I am not a jockey so can be enlightened.
AV looked like he might actually collide with the rail so it made sense for Murtagh to switch his stick to his right hand ~ he can’t have imagined what the response would be.
I’ve read some nonsense on here but what Ginger and Himself have written takes the biscuit. To suggest that a jockey would forfeit a winnning chance to help a stablemate he couldn’t even see is patent nonsense. To further suggest the winner, who was blameless, should be disqualified is sillier still. I thought the stewards got it spot on reversing the placings and taking no action against JM. I also thought the winner won on merit. Grow up lads, you’ve got no clue.
Carvills,
You have misrepresented my opinion again.
As I said, I do not think Murtagh did it deliberately.
But, with such cases you can not be certain, and therefore action should be taken against Murtagh and connections of the horse as a deterant against anyone thinking of doing this deliberately in future.
Would people’s opinions be different if it was one of Coolmore’s pacemakers that did the damage and not a fancied runner?
Because if a pacemaker did this in future, it would have to be treated in exactly the same way as it was today. After all, we can not have a rule only applicable to certain horses can we?The winner was blameless, the winner on merit, the question is were the connections of the winner blameless?
Probably, but should probably be enough?
As for growing up mate, so we have different opinions, get over it.
Of course connections of one horse never do anything to hinder another’s progress do they?
I feel a golden freeze coming on.
Mark
Value Is EverythingThe response was exactly the same as the first time he hit him right handed. IMO. So he actually could anticipate it and that is why he hit him right handed .To swerve back away from the rail.
All talk of deliberate swerving by Murtagh is laughable rubbish.
Horse swerved, Curtain Call was stopped in his tracks, Tartan Bearer’s cause was severely damaged.
Frozen Fire was launching what would have been in any case a winning run.
Without the incident, my guess is a 1-2-3 of Frozen Fire, Tartan Bearer and Curtain Call, with Casual Conquest fourth.
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