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I’ve read some nonsense on here but what Ginger and Himself have written takes the biscuit. Grow up lads, you’ve got no clue.
No need to get personal, carvillshill.
Trust me, I have done all the growing up I intend to do. You offer your opinion, I offer mine and others offer theirs.Anyhow, nothing anyone has said on the subject ( nor a good night’s sleep ) has altered my view of the race in any way.
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Just my view, and this might not be the best thread to express it, but surely racing is a sport; the object being to establish which is the best horse, and not the stable with the better team tactics or the one that can enter the most horses as spoilers or to create a route for their more fancied stablemates.
In recent times Coolmore have twice allowed their own horse the advantage of an easier passage, have deliberately slowed the pace to thwart another horse’s chances (Authorized) and boxed in a horse (Getaway) that was the main danger to their own entrant, all without a single word of censure from the powers that be.
Surely that isn’t sport?I have already mentioned the Ascot "incident"…that was a joke. Dettori got himself trapped out wide, what did he expect Heffernan do to…move aside and let him get a better spot? Absolutely nothing run and if Dettori had of given the horse a decent ride we would have heard nothing about it.
The Eclipse was a somewhat stranger event, but we have seen Ballydoyle pacemakers ignored before without complaint, they did the same to Authorized pacemaker. You mention alot of "ifs"…neither Authorized or Notnowcato were blocked or stopped unlike Galileo who was purposely shoved wide on the bend at Leopardstown.
I am not one usually to rubbish someone elses opinion, but when people like Himself and co come on an accuse Murtagh of putting other peoples (their friends and colleuges) lives at risk, then I think they are asking for their views to be rubbished or for people to get "personal".
"I am not one usually to rubbish someone elses opinion, but when people like Himself and co come on an accuse Murtagh of putting other peoples (their friends and colleuges) lives at risk, then I think they are asking for their views to be rubbished or for people to get "personal"."
I too find it hard to believe that Murtagh would take deliberate action that would put life, human or equine, at risk, BUT I do not think that people should be abused personally for having that view.
There are plenty of ways of pointing out why you think that they are wrong with resorting to insults and abuse, and I am rather surprised that someone who is involved in the admin. of another site should take the stance that you have there, Aidan.
Obviously just my opinion.
Colin
I am not one usually to rubbish someone elses opinion, but when people like Himself and co come on an accuse Murtagh of putting other peoples (their friends and colleuges) lives at risk, then I think they are asking for their views to be rubbished or for people to get "personal".
A contradictory statement if ever I read one. I think that constitutes rubbishing someone else’s opinion, don’t you ?
No matter… one must rise above it, musn’t one ?
I reiterate: Murtagh’s manoeuvre on Allesandro Volta ( I’m still not convinced it was as innocent and accidental as claimed) seemed tantamount to gamesmanship, in my opinion. Sir Michael Stoute later complained that his horse (Tartan Bearer) was " carried half way across the course, and that Murtagh and his mount just "went on and on and on…" Ryan Moore, apparently, was less diplomatic in his views.
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It seems to me that Luca Cumani could very reasonably question the stewards’ decision, in that Curtain Call should imo have been placed fourth ahead of Alessandro Volta.
Cumani, of course, has some past experience to go on – the 2003 Irish Champion, where he did unsuccessfully appeal the stewards’ decision re High Chaparral and Falbrav.
I sincerely hope that Ballydoyle will run no more than two in the Eclipse!
Just my view, and this might not be the best thread to express it, but surely racing is a sport; the object being to establish which is the best horse, and not the stable with the better team tactics or the one that can enter the most horses as spoilers or to create a route for their more fancied stablemates.
I like this Reet. In many ways this is like the Oval last week. The spirit of the game cannot always be easily translated into rules. Fortunately in cricket the supporters usually put the spirit of the game before results and the flag waving
I also think theres a difference between what could be described as Team Tactics and Team Opportunities.
Its not really likely that this manouver was planned (unlike Ascot or the eclipse) but perhaps seeing that the interfered horse is going to be a "brit runner" (although would have been interesting if New Approach had been the victim…), then thats all well and good…
Did Murtagh know who was where? I dont know… but it could hardly have worked out better for Team Ballydoyle could it?
Come on, I can’t believe people really think Murtagh decided in a split second travelling at what 35mph "Oh, I can see way over to my left and behind me another horse in my team coming up. Just like Aidan said would happen, he is so clever. Goodness me those two English horses to my side are a threat I know I’ll whack my horse and he will veer violently to his left and take them out. Now brace yourself Johnny, you don’t want to fall off and get trampled, boy that will hurt. And God forgive me if any of the other lads fall off because they will not be expecting this."
Not saying he deliberately veered (i am certain he didnt) but did he do enough to stop it when/if he knew which horses were being interferred with?
I dont think so
In recent times Coolmore have twice allowed their own horse the advantage of an easier passage, have deliberately slowed the pace to thwart another horse’s chances (Authorized) and boxed in a horse (Getaway) that was the main danger to their own entrant, all without a single word of censure from the powers that be.
Surely that isn’t sport?I love the way that a year on you still conveniently ignore that Fran Berry on Yellowstone deliberately slowed the pace to give his horse the best chance in the race, producing a career best performance in the process, and that Authorized had his own pacemaker in the race!
Some people seem to think riding a horse in a GP1 is as simple as driving a car, "hang on of him there"
Whatever the arguments about the team tactics (and its tiresome that the usual Ballydoyle hero worshippers are in an almost stalinist denial that anything of this sort happens) yesterday or beforehand, i think this is an accident waiting to happen
Sooner or later something is going to get very messy,and perhaps even nasty, in one of these races and the whole lingering suspicion about whats occuring will be blown open
I am not one usually to rubbish someone elses opinion, but when people like Himself and co come on an accuse Murtagh of putting other peoples (their friends and colleuges) lives at risk, then I think they are asking for their views to be rubbished or for people to get "personal".
A contradictory statement if ever I read one. I think that constitutes rubbishing someone else’s opinion, don’t you ?
No matter… one must rise above it, musn’t one ?
I reiterate: Murtagh’s manoeuvre on Allesandro Volta ( I’m still not convinced it was as innocent and accidental as claimed) seemed tantamount to gamesmanship, in my opinion. Sir Michael Stoute later complained that his horse (Tartan Bearer) was " carried half way across the course, and that Murtagh and his mount just "went on and on and on…" Ryan Moore, apparently, was less diplomatic in his views.
For what it’s worth, Himself, I fully agree with your views.
I had no bet in the race and think that FF would have won nevertheless.
My partner who has a lifetime’s horseriding experience and does not bet told me that in her opinion there was no doubt that JM angled the horse across the others.
I watched it live on ATR, watched countless replays including frame-by-frame and that is my impartial view.
Why he should choose to do it I’m not sure but in the heat of the moment…Just like Aidan said would happen, he is so clever.
I tell you what, the tactical genius with which he’s credited makes me wonder if he’s in the wrong job. He should be running the war out in Afghanistan. The Taliban wouldn’t have a chance.
ts tiresome that the usual Ballydoyle hero worshippers are in an almost stalinist denial that anything of this sort happens
Just as it’s tiresome that the same old people come out bleating about team tactics even in the most ridiculous of circumstances.
Sure Johnny Murtagh’s actually an owl, with 360 degree vision…
Interesting stuff PPG. I did wonder what the informed view on his actual riding would be. Would be interesting to hear views from others that have ridden at a certain level too
ts tiresome that the usual Ballydoyle hero worshippers are in an almost stalinist denial that anything of this sort happens
Just as it’s tiresome that the same old people come out bleating about team tactics even in the most ridiculous of circumstances.
Sure Johnny Murtagh’s actually an owl, with 360 degree vision…
I think I know who Aiden is on the phone to, its obviously johnny who has some sort of transmitter in his ear, "Pull out now Johnny! Frozen Fire is starting his run"
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