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What a very messy finish and my understanding is Murtagh received no punishment from the stewards which imo is completely amazing. I don’t think Tartan Bearer would have won regardless but Alessandro Volta should have been disqualified as he also interfered with Curtain Call. I am no supporter of conspiracy theories but O’Brien’s comment that he thought the horse got stage-fright as he wouldn’t have seen a crowd like that before in the straight is quite frankly silly considering he ran at Epsom.
I have already mentioned the Ascot "incident"…that was a joke. Dettori got himself trapped out wide, what did he expect Heffernan do to…move aside and let him get a better spot? Absolutely nothing run and if Dettori had of given the horse a decent ride we would have heard nothing about it.
The Eclipse was a somewhat stranger event, but we have seen Ballydoyle pacemakers ignored before without complaint, they did the same to Authorized pacemaker. You mention alot of "ifs"…neither Authorized or Notnowcato were blocked or stopped unlike Galileo who was purposely shoved wide on the bend at Leopardstown.
I am not one usually to rubbish someone elses opinion, but when people like Himself and co come on an accuse Murtagh of putting other peoples (their friends and colleuges) lives at risk, then I think they are asking for their views to be rubbished or for people to get "personal".
QEII,
Heffernan kept wide when there was nothing on his inner. His excuse of looking for better ground was laughable when first string George W was being kept on the inside. Makes it look like he was deliberately kept wide not to make Frankie go further. It turned out the Godolphin horse was not good enough / ran below form anyway, but that was not known at the time of the interferance.Eclipse,
If one horse goes off in font and suddenly slows it down that is fine, but for two to do it, at exactly the same time looks like team tac tics. Of course there are ifs, racing is all about "ifs". If Notnow cato would’ve been on the inside Coolmore would’ve been able to set a very slow gallop, favouring their doubtful stayer.Irish Champion,
Galileo was not shoved anywhere, there was no contact. If what happened to Galileo was wrong then so too was Librettist.Irish Derby,
I say again, I do not believe Murtagh deliberately did anything wrong, but there is no knowing for certain whether he did or not. When riding a horse known to wander what did he think would happen when hitting the horse on that side?
If nothing is done on this occasion what is to stop a team putting in a pacemaker already known to wander. Then when rivals are just about to pass, hit the horse, and the horse does what he has done before. (Which can be done safely). Wandering accross and hampering them. The team’s other runners coming up the rail and very wide (out of trouble).Mark
Value Is EverythingMy partner who has a lifetime’s horseriding experience and does not bet told me that in her opinion there was no doubt that JM angled the horse across the others.
Did she think that Murtagh angled the horse into the rail when he had the whip in his left hand as well. Otherwise how do you explain that jink.
Watched it again
Why did he hit him on the right when he was wandering away already?
Good stuff Ginge. Going back to the eclipse….where would the line be drawn? Imagine say 4 pacemakers dropping back and crowding back into the field…
I dont normally express my opinions these days but on this instant I am going too. AOB laces Irish races with runners usually with 2 pacemakers his jockeys look for his other horses allowing them an easy ride whereas others sometimes get a block or 10. Yesterday McCabe (on a Pacemaker) let Murtagh passed easily up the rail, he wouldnt have done so for a horse from any other stable (why should he they dont pay his wages?). Murtagh then proceeded to take out his main 2 rivals as I believe at the time he thought he would still hold on. Curtain Call got Mullered and Tartan Bearer was left with no forward momentum only diagonal momentum. Convieniently of course the other O’Brien horse is able to continue with direct forward motion making it seem like he won easily. If Murtagh had not done his manouvre then either Curtan Call or Tartan Bearer would have won. He should be banned for a minimum of 14 days IMO and from now on Pacemakers should be banned from group 1 races as they can often be used to impliment "Team Tactics". My personal belief is should this happen again then maybe it shouldnt only be the horse what commits the interefence that is punished but if any "team" horse directly benefits from these actions they too should be disqualified. That would stop this sort of incident once and for all.
The erraticism of Alessandro Volta comes as no shock and certainly no Murtagh tactics would’ve caused this son of Montjeu to act as he had done.
This is the way of racing. An unfortunate circumstance which has brought the Irish Derby down to mediocrity. What could have been for Curtain Call and Tartan Bearer – particularly the former.
One thing I cannot rule a line through – the finishing speed of Frozen Fire.
ts tiresome that the usual Ballydoyle hero worshippers are in an almost stalinist denial that anything of this sort happens
Just as it’s tiresome that the same old people come out bleating about team tactics even in the most ridiculous of circumstances.
Sure Johnny Murtagh’s actually an owl, with 360 degree vision…
I think I know who Aiden is on the phone to, its obviously johnny who has some sort of transmitter in his ear, "Pull out now Johnny! Frozen Fire is starting his run"
O’Brien jockey conference before racing.
O’Brien:
"Johnny, you make the pace on the rail with Bahkirof following, Heffernon, you come wide".Is it not very possible Murtagh did know where the other team members were?
Mark
Value Is EverythingWould still be good to hear from all the ballydoyle idol worshippers quite why they thuink Murtagh hit him on the right at that point. Looked worse watching again today
Pacemakers should be banned from group 1 races as they can often be used to impliment "Team Tactics".
Good post Andy and agree with this, but how to define? Think Scorpion at Ascot
Scorpion at Ascot was a complete and utter disgrace.
Why?
Scorpion was a stayer.
Needed a truly run 1m4f to run to form.
It was therefore perfectly reasonable (with no guaranteed pace horse in the race) to set a good pace himself.
Had he not done so, and the pace been slow, Scorpion would’ve had no chance.Mark
Value Is EverythingMy partner who has a lifetime’s horseriding experience and does not bet told me that in her opinion there was no doubt that JM angled the horse across the others
I’m going to rain on PPG’s girlfriend’s parade here, I’m afraid.
I, too, have experience of riding horses – 20 years worth, including riding in races and riding regular work several times a week.
In my view, there is no way that Murtagh deliberately rode his horse across the track – for starters, does he have any wish to wind up in ICU? Does anyone seriously think he risked not only killing himself but other jockeys and riders by potentially creating a pile-up? That’s cloud la-la-land theory, I’m afraid.
Scorpion at Ascot was a complete and utter disgrace.
Why?
Scorpion was a stayer.
Needed a truly run 1m4f to run to form.
It was therefore perfectly reasonable (with no guaranteed pace horse in the race) to set a good pace himself.
Had he not done so, and the pace been slow, Scorpion would’ve had no chance.Mark
A good pace is one thing, acting as a pacemaker another thing altogether..
So..with all your experience…can you explain why he hit him on the right when the horse was already veering that way from the rails?
Pacemakers should not be banned, as long as they try their best to win the race themselves. Not to go off at a suicidal pace or try to stop other horses from winning.
Not that either Alesandro or Washington were pacemakers, just staying horses that need a test at 1m4f to show their best. So it was perfectly reasonable for them to make it a good pace.Trainers should be allowed to run however many horses they like, as long as there are no team tactics, ganging up against other horses. Frozen Fire turned out to be the best horse in the Irish Derby, despite not being in O’Brien’s top two fancied horses. So limiting Aiden’s runners to two would result in the best horse not in the race, with less competitive, poorer quality racing.
It is up to punters themselves to study the form and back each horse on it’s own merits. I often back second, third or fifth string horses, sadly did not work the Irish Derby out yesterday.Value Is EverythingIs it only me, or does it look like Alessandro Volta was ready to steamroll through the far side rail when Murtagh gave his off flank the stick?
The QE2 was a load of rubbish, can anyone honestly say that Librettist had even the remotest chance of beating george washington. Not likely. Heffernan was just on a crap horse and dettori was taking a line past the wrong horse at the time.
Getaway in the coronation cup was beaten fair and square IMO. AOB had three in the race, Two of them were running way out in front and the other (the winner) was ridden prominently amogst the chasing pack. Getaway had every chance to get a run, if he was beaten through interference with any other runners (which I didnt see but it could only have been Song Of Hiawatha who dropped back) then it was bad jockeying on his behalf as much as any of AOBs.
In his last three runs Alessandro Volta and Murtagh have forced two horses wide coming off the turn (one of whom was his own stablemate) and it looks to me like the horse may be at least partly to blame..
IMO people just talk about team tactics because AOB runs so many (which lets face it sometimes he has to) and inevitably one will cause interence to another every once in a while.
Lets face it though, Murtagh wasnt out there to set the race up for Heffernan was he? Interference was caused by Murtagh trying to rude AV for a win. Lets put it in perspective.
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