Forum Replies Created
- Posts
I’m more of a lucky 15 fan myself particularly as you get double the odds with just one winner.
Have to admit im partial to a lucky myself, that is normally my betting choice, just wondered if anyone had tried it?
I know alot of bookmakers online dont have this type of bet
I’m surprised. I should think that every bookmaker in the country would be very keen to take it.
Mike
Sorry i say, "I KNOW" what i mean by that is, alot of people on the perticular thread on the forum i took the info from were saying that their bookmakers dont use the bet, so i may be wrong!
I think the stewards made the correct decision. The only travesty here is that Mackays horse was allowed to keep the race.
We can hide behind the facts if we wish to but this is how I see it:
Nicky Mackay knowingly broke the rules and whipped his horse too many times. Whether you agree with the whip rules or not is irrelevant. The fact is the rules are in place and are the same for everyone. Its no good breaking the rules that you know exist and then complaining when you are rightly punished.
The horse was very heavily backed into 1/2 fav and at a guess I would say that connections were heavily involved in this gamble and that Mackay would have been fully aware that the connections were punting it. Would he have broken the rules had connections money not been on? I doubt it very much.
You can pretend that it was all about safety – absolute poppycock and a desperate excuse. If the horse was being whipped for safety then why on the 1st bend when the horse veered out to the right did Mackay not whip the horse? The answer is because this was not the business end of the race and with connections money being down he didnt want to ruin his chances for the end of the race.
Yes the horse was veering to the right all the way up the home straight, the jockey claims he thought he may go through the rails. Watch the race – this is a ludicrous claim and at no point was that horse going through the rails.
Lets pretend the horse was in danger of going through the rails – surely after the 5th or 6th whip Mackay should have realised the whip wasnt stopping the horse from drifting to the right and he should have tried other measures to straighten the horse up. But of course this ride was absolutely nothing to do with safety (though feel free to hide behind this incorrect theory anti whip rule people).
Master Fizz was only beaten a fraction in 2nd place. Had Mackay kept to the whip rules in the same way that the jockey on Master Fizz did then Mackay probably would not have won the race its fair to say.
So top connections have landed there gamble and got the win, no doubt Mackay will be looked after for landing the gamble.
A small trainer and relatively unknown jockey who would have loved to get a win have been robbed because of Mackays cheating (and it is cheating). When will this trainer and jockey get another winner? Who knows, they dont have them often.
Had the jockey on Master Fizz also cheated and broke the whip rule like Mackay then he could have had a winner, but the jockey on the 2nd rode an honest race and chose not to cheat.What about the poor punters who have backed Master Fizz and missed out on a 20/1 winner because Mackay decided to break the rules to land the gamble? They have been robbed as have the connections and jockey of Master Fizz because they chose not to cheat and played the sport within the rules.
All this talk of disgrace is a disgrace. Mackay isnt the victim he knowingly broke the rules to land the gamble and others lost out big time because of it.
The rules need changing I think, the horse should have been thrown out in the stewards room and the win awarded to Master Fizz.
And no I did not back Master Fizz and am not speaking through my pocket. Its irrelevant if you think the whip rules are wrong or not, the rules are in place and until a time when they are changed then all jockeys must abide to them in the fairness of the game. Hiding behind a safety issue smoke screen is laughable in this case.
Great another expert who has ridden over 10000 winners… You telling people what mackay was thinking.. What are the lottery numbers?
Im not an expert and havent ridden a horse in a race. However the rules are the rules and no matter what your opinion of the rules is, its only fair that all jockeys stick to these rules. You dont need to be an ex jockey to implement the rules. Most 6 year old children would not have a problem with counting the number of times the horse is hit. If you go over the limit you get banned. We all know where we stand.
I have seen enough racing to be sure that Mackay was riding a finish and it was nothing to do with safety.
Wait until you lose a lot of money because a jockey has decided to abuse the whip rules and your horse ends up getting beaten. Then come back and see me.
I have so far, and i understood why it happened, but im talking about this race in perticular, under the circumstances coming from the outside rail to the inside rail, it gets dangerous…
Opinion is opinion anyway.
Yes again, good points and your pointing out what i used to state to all my good friends when backing him, i like him on a horse that needs a tactical ride, but for pure strength, if you had 2 horses of equal ability, and i had to choose out of the 2, with hillsy on one, and Moore on the other… i know who i would choose, Purely down to opinion, and i respect yours! (even if its wrong
)Lee
I think the stewards made the correct decision. The only travesty here is that Mackays horse was allowed to keep the race.
We can hide behind the facts if we wish to but this is how I see it:
Nicky Mackay knowingly broke the rules and whipped his horse too many times. Whether you agree with the whip rules or not is irrelevant. The fact is the rules are in place and are the same for everyone. Its no good breaking the rules that you know exist and then complaining when you are rightly punished.
The horse was very heavily backed into 1/2 fav and at a guess I would say that connections were heavily involved in this gamble and that Mackay would have been fully aware that the connections were punting it. Would he have broken the rules had connections money not been on? I doubt it very much.
You can pretend that it was all about safety – absolute poppycock and a desperate excuse. If the horse was being whipped for safety then why on the 1st bend when the horse veered out to the right did Mackay not whip the horse? The answer is because this was not the business end of the race and with connections money being down he didnt want to ruin his chances for the end of the race.
Yes the horse was veering to the right all the way up the home straight, the jockey claims he thought he may go through the rails. Watch the race – this is a ludicrous claim and at no point was that horse going through the rails.
Lets pretend the horse was in danger of going through the rails – surely after the 5th or 6th whip Mackay should have realised the whip wasnt stopping the horse from drifting to the right and he should have tried other measures to straighten the horse up. But of course this ride was absolutely nothing to do with safety (though feel free to hide behind this incorrect theory anti whip rule people).
Master Fizz was only beaten a fraction in 2nd place. Had Mackay kept to the whip rules in the same way that the jockey on Master Fizz did then Mackay probably would not have won the race its fair to say.
So top connections have landed there gamble and got the win, no doubt Mackay will be looked after for landing the gamble.
A small trainer and relatively unknown jockey who would have loved to get a win have been robbed because of Mackays cheating (and it is cheating). When will this trainer and jockey get another winner? Who knows, they dont have them often.
Had the jockey on Master Fizz also cheated and broke the whip rule like Mackay then he could have had a winner, but the jockey on the 2nd rode an honest race and chose not to cheat.What about the poor punters who have backed Master Fizz and missed out on a 20/1 winner because Mackay decided to break the rules to land the gamble? They have been robbed as have the connections and jockey of Master Fizz because they chose not to cheat and played the sport within the rules.
All this talk of disgrace is a disgrace. Mackay isnt the victim he knowingly broke the rules to land the gamble and others lost out big time because of it.
The rules need changing I think, the horse should have been thrown out in the stewards room and the win awarded to Master Fizz.
And no I did not back Master Fizz and am not speaking through my pocket. Its irrelevant if you think the whip rules are wrong or not, the rules are in place and until a time when they are changed then all jockeys must abide to them in the fairness of the game. Hiding behind a safety issue smoke screen is laughable in this case.
Great another expert who has ridden over 10000 winners… You telling people what mackay was thinking.. What are the lottery numbers?
His strike rate at over 15% last year was similar to the other top jockeys, his strike rate across the various types of races is similar to other top jockeys and his strike rate on the AW or in maidens is high.
Last year was not a good year for group races for him but you can only play with the ammo you’re given, maybe it’s because he didn’t win the high profile races, that you are looking at him in this light – if not, the stats don’t support the arguments.
I know what your saying Sberry and i agree the SR is good, but he gets alot of rides in maidens like you say, and i think its a fair comment to state that their maidens are generally above average/very good
Cheers mate, will only put brief reasons.
1.40 – Bird dog – speedy horse who will need to stay well, danny brock a plus.
2.10 – Zalan – Bet of the race here at 16/1?!?! Well bred shouldnt be a mug.
2.45 – Trans sonic – Well with weights and race should suit with fallon up (although Vunerable)
3.15 – Nazreef withdrawn so – Follow the flag – Will get a stronger pace than last time which should suit.
3.50 – Captain Bellamy – Hughie morrison does very well here, with Jimmy on board, sure to go well.
4.20 – JJ Leary – Fallon on board for ian williams – The visor is back on which could help, but the real reason im backing this is because of ian williams superior Profit to a level stake last season. (i said i would back all his this year)
4.55 – Brunello – The form slightly stacks up in his favor at the weights and will strong fallon on board and cheekpieces added im hoping will suit.
Dont think we are too far off eachother SBERRY!
Sorry to say this Cormack, but if you check the front page of the racingpost website… there is a poll…
Current results:
Should Nicky Mackay have been banned for his ride on Stars In Your Eyes?
Yes:15% No:85%
What do you say to all of those comments then, Corm? You’re the only person I know who likes the current rules.
I’m surprised cormack isn’t a jockey, he seems to think he is an expert on race riding, he said " Relied on whip to correct when he should have relied on his reins and the bit".
How does he know that?
He doesnt, he guesses, you would struggle to control a veering horse with the reins and the bit, as far as im concerned thats what the whip is for, correction and "persuading"
Very good points and i agree with both, i was told by a fellow jockey of his the tactics some jocks use when in a finish, just to squueze him up, hes not strong enough, however his mental ability to judge a race and a horse is class, but he still leaves it too long!
Training perhaps?
Id back them..
Racing has gone, i dont care what any of you say, lester used a whip so long he would strike on the right and it would go round and hit the left it was like a ******* Fishing pole… once any of you ride half a tonne of thoroughbred up a canter!! let alone a race when he/she is trying to get you off, you would want more than a whip! The whip is air cusioned ffs, if he pulled it up on safety reason he gets a ban for not trying! if he comes 2nd he gets a rocket from the trainer!
RIDE ONE FIRST.
Everyone is a billy when they read an article,
Racing is gone.
Edited:
Ill see if i can scoop anything out from Sir henry if i see him in the near future and dont forget!
I was told his roster for last season by someone close to him which came in handy when Laying the ante post derby Favorite!
however i do know that the International will be on the sheet as he was initially aimed for that last season but with getting him settled early on in the season being an issue it was put off and his plans changed!
Lee
Gingertipster and Eclipse You both are some of the most "SANE" people i have seen on this forum, and you have said what i have been trying to say for a while with topics like this, as eclipse says "bad piece of work" if a horse is off form the last thing you need is the mount and jockey being in serious danger by clattering a fence!
There are many reasons why horses are withdrawn, and if its a problem, simply dont back the antepost market!
I love how punters think they know racing and how it works better than the trainers, (even if they do not and have never worked in the sport)
Saying that i do agree that trainers should state their plans on where to take horses (not giving a 100% answer) because hey! things happen and plans change due to how horses are leading upto a race, A horse could be targeted to a race 100%.. then a few days before withdrawn, if its a problem dont back antepost?! the horse could then be withdrawn and entered 3 days later after the problem is sorted…for example if a horse has not performed well, he may have won, but the jockey could express problems with the horse during the race…
I dont bet anyway so i really couldnt care less!
As an owner its a pleasure to know that the number of strokes is limited. We had a winner, that was well beaten home and the jockey got ‘misuse’, the horse was in such a state it did not make the winning enclosure and had veterinary attendance.
That’s an interesting comment. I’ve read jockeys stating that the whip doesn’t hurt a horse. Apparently it just makes a noise that reminds/focus’s them of the job in hand.
The whips are "air pocketed" in most cases, as a test i was struck with my friends whip across the leg, needless to say it stung a fair amount, and left a red mark, however horses have thicker skin, more muscle tissue and fat, saying that if you hit any living skin with a whip more than 10 times it will leave a mark!
there is no reason to smack a horse more than 10 times IMO unless the horse is veering dangerously over jumps as 10 stone vs half a tonne is by no means fair!!
far more interesting
if you can get it is
a book on gamblers
who were released.I like what you have done there Gambler!
And thanks everyone i will have a further look into the books you have suggested, i think the timeform one sounds promisin along with a few others! i will make a thread sometime in the future with my purchases and after i have studied them!
Thanks.
)