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Frankels Targets for 2012

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  • #20971
    Gav1584
    Member
    • Total Posts 43

    Does anyone have an idea of what Frankels targets could be for the coming season? I fancy seeing him in the flesh but as i live in Newcastle its gonna be tough. Does anyone think he will come up to york for the Juddmonte?

    #390945
    Gingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 28423

    Possibly:
    Lockinge, Queen Anne (or Prince Of Wales), Eclipse, Juddmonte, Irish Champion, British Champion and/or Breeders Cup?

    That would be IF he stays on his first try at 1m2f.

    Value Is Everything
    #390969
    Jonibake
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4453

    Possibly:
    Lockinge, Queen Anne (or Prince Of Wales), Eclipse, Juddmonte, Irish Champion, British Champion and/or Breeders Cup?

    That would be IF he stays on his first try at 1m2f.

    Agree with the above other than the Irish Champion which is unlikely I would say.

    More than likely to run in the Juddmonte as it is his owners race but that does assume he stays the 10f in the Eclipse.

    Gav my advice would be to pawn the wedding ring to see this horse if you can. It is an event when he runs and he is a glorious sight. Come down to Newbury on 19th May and I’ll buy you a Newky Brown!

    "this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"

    #390973
    Gav1584
    Member
    • Total Posts 43

    Sounds good but iv already pawned in to go the 2000 Guineas at Newmarket 2 weeks before, so dont think il be able to afford that aswell! Il just have to hope he makes an appearance at york

    #391032
    TomBarkley87
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1792

    The Juddmonte’s an absolute cert.

    @TheTomBarkley87

    #391051
    Hurdygurdyman
    Member
    • Total Posts 1555

    All I know there wont be any Frankel V Black Caviar the press keep bringing up.

    If there so keen in it happening they should put up 5 million cos that’s the only way it might.

    Frankel’s targets are winning enclosures no matter where he runs or what takes him on but the Juddmonte looks a certainty as Boz says.

    #391052
    JJMSports
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2033

    Lockinge
    St James Palace
    Eclipse
    Juddmonte
    Champion Stakes
    Breeders Cup

    Another six wins there.

    #391066
    Marginal Value
    Participant
    • Total Posts 686

    Lockinge
    St James Palace
    Eclipse
    Juddmonte
    Champion Stakes
    Breeders Cup

    Another six wins there.

    You must have had a good night out. To start thinking that time travel might just work in 2012, and Frankel could be a three-year-old once more at Ascot in June, is not the result of cold sober analysis. Tiredness perhaps? :D

    #391072
    Drone
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5503

    Possibly:
    Lockinge, Queen Anne (or Prince Of Wales), Eclipse, Juddmonte, Irish Champion, British Champion and/or Breeders Cup?

    That would be IF he stays on his first try at 1m2

    f.

    :) Indeed GT, it would seem the contributors to this thread are blessed with second sight

    My blurred presbyopic second sight has revealed this

    Lockinge
    Kings Stand
    July Cup
    Nunthorpe
    Sprint Cup
    Abbaye

    or if Henry Cecil is really clever he’ll forget the Lockinge prep and start off in the Temple Stakes carrying a penalty

    There you go Gav1584, trips to York and Haydock await, enjoy :wink:

    #391080
    Jonibake
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4453

    Possibly:
    Lockinge, Queen Anne (or Prince Of Wales), Eclipse, Juddmonte, Irish Champion, British Champion and/or Breeders Cup?

    That would be IF he stays on his first try at 1m2

    f.

    :) Indeed GT, it would seem the contributors to this thread are blessed with second sight

    My blurred presbyopic second sight has revealed this

    Lockinge
    Kings Stand
    July Cup
    Nunthorpe
    Sprint Cup
    Abbaye

    or if Henry Cecil is really clever he’ll forget the Lockinge prep and start off in the Temple Stakes carrying a penalty

    There you go Gav1584, trips to York and Haydock await, enjoy :wink:

    I’d say it’s 100-1 he runs in any of those after the Lockinge but assume by the wink you were pulling our leg.

    I think Henry would sooner retire him than run him in sprints.

    Most of us have put the proviso of IF he stays as you can never be sure but I’d say most evidence points to the fact that he will.

    "this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"

    #391089
    Eclipse First
    Member
    • Total Posts 1569

    Well I would agree with Drone, he runs like 6f would suit him far more than 10f. His best run last year IMO was in the Sussex over a sharp mile, he settled far better and looked the genuine article that day. The July Cup looks tailor made for him, I doubt he would see another horse after the first half furlong.
    Just because his breeding says he should be a 10f horse, it doesn’t make it so. As a freak, he is far less likely to confirm to his pedigree in regards to trip than a more moderate individual.

    #391094
    Jonibake
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4453

    Well I would agree with Drone, he runs like 6f would suit him far more than 10f. His best run last year IMO was in the Sussex over a sharp mile, he settled far better and looked the genuine article that day. The July Cup looks tailor made for him, I doubt he would see another horse after the first half furlong.
    Just because his breeding says he should be a 10f horse, it doesn’t make it so. As a freak, he is far less likely to confirm to his pedigree in regards to trip than a more moderate individual.

    I think you are half right Eclipse. He

    is

    a freak and he

    would

    probably win the July Cup. The thing is connections would not even contemplate that race. When after the SJP Sir Henry was asked by Richie Persad if he would consider dropping the horse down to that trip his reply was sharp and succinct "no". They won’t think about it for a second.

    As to whether 6f would suit him more than 10f – well I would personally doubt it. If you watch all his races, but in particular the last two, he runs right through the line and is drawing clear throughout the final furlong. He also takes an age to pull up. I would suggest that this, as well as his pedigree, points to him being able to get further than a mile.

    Obviously much will depend on him being able to settle off perhaps a slower pace but he did seem to be maturing with every race last year. I think people make more of this settling issue than is necessary – maybe because it is the only possible chink in his armour. Apart from maybe the Dewhurst I don’t think it has been a factor.

    Besides, if I was trying to get him beat next season, I would ensure a strong gallop to try and sap his stamina. I’m sure that will be the tactics employed by Coolmore if SYT or Camelot take him on.

    But if it came to backing him against SYT or Cirhus Des Aigles over 10f or Black Caviar over 6f I know which one I would prefer.

    "this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"

    #391104
    Leeknowles1
    Member
    • Total Posts 100

    Ill see if i can scoop anything out from Sir henry if i see him in the near future and dont forget!

    I was told his roster for last season by someone close to him which came in handy when Laying the ante post derby Favorite!

    however i do know that the International will be on the sheet as he was initially aimed for that last season but with getting him settled early on in the season being an issue it was put off and his plans changed!

    Lee

    #391108
    Gingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 28423

    Frankel is deffo bred for 10f, but judging by the way he runs isn’t 100% certain. All depends which Frankel turns up.

    IF

    running like he did in the Greenham, 2000 and St James’s he won’t stay. Just too free. Looked as if sprints rather than middle distances would suit. Sir Henry has only ever been interested in sprints if they’ve proven not to get "Classic" distances, so that wasn’t going to happen.

    IF

    settling like he did in the Sussex and QEII has a fair chance of staying 10f. Still wasn’t as relaxed as you’d hope and had the benifit of a pacemaker at Ascot. He’ll obviously have to go at slower paces upped in trip and rivals might ignore pacemakers and make it pedestrian. Whether he "stays" or not, if he doesn’t settle better than he has so far, is unlikely to be as good at 10f.

    However, it is encouraging that as Frankel’s got older he’s gradually become less of a tearaway.

    IF

    that trend continues then there is every chance he’ll stay 10f well.

    Value Is Everything
    #391165
    Jonibake
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4453

    Agree with most of that Ginge. In fairness though he actually settled well in the SJP but was asked to close up far too early. Also the Guineas was exceptional as they didnt even try to settle him but just let him gallop.

    Over 10f his rivals have the choice:

    a) Make it pedestrian and hope he doesnt settle – if he does they obviously have no chance

    b) go a clip and try and expose any stamina issues.

    Personally b) would be my choice.

    BTW the sectionals for Champions Day showed they actually went faster in the first 3 furlongs of the Champion than they did in the QEII.

    "this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"

    #391177
    Eclipse First
    Member
    • Total Posts 1569

    An odd choice Joni, horses will expend far more energy trying unsuccessfully to settle than going at a steady gallop. In the QEII Frankel never settled that well in the early stages, unless you consider his head carriage in that race to be normal for a relaxed thoroughbred at the gallop.

    #391192
    Jonibake
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4453

    An odd choice Joni, horses will expend far more energy trying unsuccessfully to settle than going at a steady gallop. In the QEII Frankel never settled that well in the early stages, unless you consider his head carriage in that race to be normal for a relaxed thoroughbred at the gallop.

    Not odd at all EF. Whilst you are right that a horse will expand more energy not settling, that doesn’t actually have anything to do with my choice. My point is I think he is more likely to be exposed by stamina issues than an inability to settle and I am almost certain that it was his opponents will try to do. Without success imo.

    You are right that he held his head to one side in the QEII and I was surprised at the time TQ didn’t go with his pacemaker as they went incredibly slowly in those opening three furlongs – slower even than in the Long Distance race – but it never seems to bother him too much does it? Maybe it will over 10f. Watch the race again and look at Side Glance. Now THAT is what I call not settling.

    "this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"

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