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I have taken 5/2 that
Backstage
goes off favourite just to cover my main bets at 20/1 and 16/1 about him winning.A monster gamble is being prepared here and with Paul Carberry up we have the right man for the job.Fingers crossed and that.
So, your supporting Denman because he finished behind a horse who was a single figure price for the Gold Cup on the strength of …….erm, beating Denman?
Denman finished 19l adrift of his previous Hennessy form, effectively off only 4lbs higher, and not one of the first 7 in that race (all those within shouting distance) has done a single thing since to suggest the form was anywhere near as good as it was rated.
Good luck with your bet, I feel you may need it.Thats a fascinating way of evaluating form reet hard suggesting "Denman finished 19l adrift of his previous Hennessey form",my way of interpreting his Hennessey form would be that the Denman who won the 09 event would have been beaten by 8 secs by the Denman that finished 3rd in this seasons race,i look forward to seeing your Gold Cup selection.
we are sheep that will just take whatever crap is thrown at us?
That is exactly what we are and yet we continue to suffer the 6.5 million pound Bonus Banker and the likes,we could discuss the rapid state of deteriation of this country till the cows come home but the word Greed describes things pretty well.I often wonder where our Road Taxes alone dissapear to because its not in the pot holes thats killing those riding motorbikes.
Captain Chris is this years Riverside Theatre,he will find it all happening a bit too quickly,Finians Rainbow would win in a canter if the race was decided on looks alone,unfortunately its not and his jumping will be tested to the limit,he will make a couple of blunders and its how he deals with them that will decide his fate.Ghizao looks progressive and is a fine stamp of a chaser but not even he will trouble
Medermit
,this has always been his target and it will be a repeat of his illustrious stable companions victories from My Way de Solzen and Voy Por Ustedes.
Having been on the receiving end of Seans Wrath on both here and ATR yesterday,i have to take my hat off to him for his passionate defence of the events surrounding Saturdays Eider Chase,a defence Lawyer in the making for sure.Acting on behalf of the prosecution,so to speak, my opinion is quite simply the end of that particular race and the fact that it was over 4m 1f in bottomless ground did not look good to the eye,that is not how i beleive horses should finish races,there is also the fact that punters who backed those 10 that were pulled up could ask did they actually get a fair return for their money on this occassion of unusual circumstances? Its good to see the BHA are looking into things here as i still firmly believe the meeting should never have taken place and all because 4 mile races are so few and far between that the powers that be failed to recognise the extra demands those Eider contenders were dealt.Comply and Die has won this race in the past aswell as the toughest race in the world and he stopped like a shot horse on Saturday that in itself is visual evidence to support why i believe it was wrong to run it.I rest my case m"lud!
Kingfisher,
Where were you two years ago?
The Eider Chase that has got you all fired up was run in 9m 30.9 secs.
The Eider Chase of 2009 (2010 abandoned) was also run on heavy ground, they jumped 24 fences, 5 of 13 starters completed the course and the winners time was 9m 27.3 secs.
Can’t find any record of complaints after that race, either on here or in the media generally.
AP
AP, i dont recall Merigo stopping after 4m 1f that day on heavy ground, he certainly didn"t jump the last as though he was stood still,had Companero and Giles Cross jumped the same amount of fences as Merigo,(3 more)then i doubt they would have completed and if they did it would have broken 10 minutes to finish the race which suggests even further the race should have been abandoned imo of course.By the way i cant remember where i was 2 yrs ago but i remember going to Newcastle 14yrs ago to back Scotton Banks!
or was it Seven Towers?? Seans worn me out! 
"a commercial decision was made to allow the Eider to go ahead"
Are you suggesting Kingfisher that the decision put commercial imperatives ahead of the welfare of the horses and jockeys? That’s a mighty serious accusation and I’d be keen to hear what you’re basing it on.
If you agree that Newcastle ‘got away’ with the decision to race in which sense was it wrong?
What is the maximum distance over which you would allow a race and what is the lowest going stick reading you would permit? What empirical evidence would you base your decision on?
It seems to me you’re asking clerks to accurately predict how a race might ‘look’ and how it might make a viewer ‘feel’. If that’s the case how are you going to equip clerks to make that decision?
My blinkers are off on this one if there is evidence to demonstrate that Newcastle’s decision was wrong I’ll happily revisit my views on this.
Sean,like i have stated previously had this been a run of the mill mid week meeting it would have been cancelled,simply on the basis that the ground had a going stick reading of 3.4.Bearing in mind Heavy ground is 5.5 and waterlogged is 1.5.The record shows Newcastle have never raced on such desperate ground since readings were first recorded,so why did they allow the meeting to go ahead? The Eider chase is one of the most recognised races at Newcastle along with the Fighting Fifth and the Pitmens Derby,corporate hospitality is booked months in advance for all and all three meetings are well supported by local business never mind about the massive TV coverage that will enhance all those advertising boards around the course.Comply or Die won it the same year he won the National and he just couldn"t handle it on Saturday again proving just how desperate things were,to re-schedule now would have just been too tight what with Cheltenham and Aintree fast approaching,i believe the decision makers failed to realise that 4m 1f was just pushing their luck on ground reading 3.4 and if it wasn"t Eider day it would have been cancelled,no question,Greed won the day! I believe any reading less than 4 has to be questioned regarding the possibility of racing but if there was a race of over 4 miles then its abandoned,Saturday confirmed that clearly imo,like i have stated previously it was a unique set of circumstances,i have no problem with running 3m chases and less on Heavy ground but 4 miles is a different ball game,Red Marauders Grand National will never get new punters to join us and Saturdays race had exactly the same visual impact,it didn"t look good,even you must agree with that Sean,it did more harm for the game than good for sure.Clerks have exactly the same problem with assessing/watering fast ground,Simon Claisse is still learning how to get it wrong!It is quite apparent you have an unwaivering opinion on this one and for all the you think its fine watching horses go beyond the call of duty and attempt to jump like a drunk and then stand still before being urged to continue,i believe its wrong! Dessies Gold Cup is not comparable by the way he ran on up the hill and showed grit and determination,Companero and Giles Cross were shattered! I admire your tenacity Sean,in fact you would be Comply or Die if you were a horse!
Do we simply ban racing on heavy ground then?
‘Extreme stamina test’ means different things to different horses
Personally I regard 2yo 5f races on bad ground (not infrequent during March and April) as potentially more gruelling and damaging to a young, inexperienced still-growing horse than the 4+ miles a grizzled old gelding may occasionally endure
The weariness and ‘cruelty’ in the latter case is obvious; in the former, hidden
Drone,when did you last see a 2yo "Legless" over 5f? You might see a 2yo struggle over 11/4m at the backend at Newmarket but rarely on ground thats desperate.
Kingfisher, we’ll have to agree to disagree. I haven’t seen any evidence at all to support your view. The clerk, the trainers, the owners, the jockeys all believed it was right to race. You disagree. That’s fine and many will agree with you. The fact that the slowest going stick reading ever recorded at Newcastle resulted in some very slow times is neither surprising nor evidence that the meeting should have been abandoned.
Its almost a unique scenario Sean as i would bet a pound to a penny Newcastle have abandoned mid week meetings far less prestigious than this one for ground this bad,you dont have to be a student of finance to realise a commercial decision was made to allow the Eider to go ahead,that said those who gave the race the go ahead got away with it,only just though,i wonder how many executives of the course thought after the first 3 races Oh dear we have a 4m + race coming up and its the only one of the year! Fingers firmly crossed! By the way if you were a horse i would make sure the blinkers came off next time out!
Kingfisher. To ‘condone’ means to overlook or ignore something wrong, illegal or immoral.
That’s why I disupte the word’s use in this context.Sean that in my opinion is exactly what you are doing "Ignoring something wrong"! Saturdays race over 4 miles should never have been run in those conditions,10 horses should never have been pulled up and the 2 that did finish were visually distressing to the eye,thank goodness we dont submit horses to that on a daily basis as our days would be numbered,i love my racing as much as yourself but i dont like to see them "jumping" i use the term lightly, fences like that! You have made your case clearly on ATR where you stand and i respect that but on this occassion i strongly dissagree with your views that the outcome of Saturdays Eider was acceptable,like i have said before it was wrong the meeting even went ahead on this occassion.(Backed up by the clock)!
Condone? I’m not condoning, others are condemning based on nothing more than their ‘feeling’ that something was wrong.
Of course you are condoning the fact that its acceptable to watch 2 horses scramble over the last absolutely legless by the mere fact that you are dissagreeing that its just not acceptable to see horses struggle like that. When did you last see a Champion hurdle winner,July Cup winner or Derby winner finish its race like that? A horse should finish its race and it should finish it knowing its had one,not barely able to put one foot in front of the other and then miraculously clambering over the last fence,my heart was in my mouth,god knows where those horses hearts were! Not a sight to savour that.
No horse in that Eider chase was operating at total exertion/exhaustion for prolonged periods. Those who hit that wall earlier in the race were pulled up and those that finished would only have hit the boundary of their endurance very late in the contest. The animals will have no sense of having been ‘abused’ in any way at all and to imagine so is to project our misunderstandings on to these wonderful animals.
Sean by your own admission you condone the fact that it is acceptable for a field of horses to race in atrocious conditions and have 80% of them pulled up.The reason they are pulled up is because they are exhausted due to the severity of the exceptional conditions they have encountered,thankfully their respective jockeys all accepted that this years Eider was just too much for them and foremost considered the horses wellbeing.The idea of racing horses is to allow each to actually finish the race to the best of their ability,Comply or die for one was certainly never going to get the chance to run his race in those conditions and thankfully lives to fight another day,the first 2 home couldn"t have jumped another fence and lived to tell the tale on the day irrespective of how well they have come out of it.
I wonder sometimes what those who say they found the Eider ‘distasteful’ think horseracing is? Horses in their training, and particularly in their races, are asked to give enormous physical athletic effort. These efforts take them to the limit of what their body can do. It’s what happens in elite sport.
I dont recall any race where over 80% of the field have failed to finish in any elite sport! You only have to look at the times from the meeting to realise it should have been abandoned and had it been a mid week fixture it surely would have been.To complete all 7 races took over 6 minutes longer than standard,that is the equivalent to a 3 mile chase around Newcastle,thank God 4 fences were omitted in the Eider or else none would have completed and at the worse Companero or Giles Cross could have dropped dead after the line,these were exceptional conditions on Saturday and not suited to a 4m+ Chase,the powers that be only just got a way with it imo.I dont think you would be so vociferous then Sean!
Is it an extreme test? Of course it is but so too is galloping thoroughbreds down the hill and round the bend at Epsom on quick ground against the most able of their peers in the world in the Derby.
And when did 10 of a field of 12 get pulled up through exhaustion Sean?
The King will march into Cheltenham singing this-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErMcwQ2cBaM
Reve de Sivola
will supply the backing!
Joanne,i"m using this thread to remind me of horses that have won decent races,or at least have ran well in them! My eyecatchers are what i believe are quality horses,not All Weather sorts,so feel free to add anything that catches your eye.My first horse
Razor Royale
,looks like he could be trained for a repeat Racing Post Chase and so is currently having his handicap mark protected/adjusted to suit! Although i would still give him a big shout in a 21/2m Handicap at Cheltenham!
Thetotherone
has surprised me in that he has developed into an out and out stayer,i remember him failing to get to Nenuphar Collonges over 3m once and felt he lacked stamina,subsequent events have shown that the further he goes the better,i can see him taking to the National fences and pace and of course P,Nicholls would love to win it!
My eyecatcher for last Saturday has to be
Thetotherone
,admittedly he was well handicapped in the Hennessey but having watched the race several times,he was never at the races and yet finished with great effect to get 4th! The race was run at such a pace that this fellow just couldn"t go with them and he was getting the hurry up constantly,so much so that his jumping was put under pressure and he constantly made errors.This horse wants a big step up in trip and to my eye could easily be a national type!
or was it Seven Towers?? Seans worn me out! 