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without the need to drag things out in an endless childish spat.
Isn’t this exactly what you have been doing by simply responding with “why” to every post Clive makes?
Another one I liked
There is an old saying which explains political systems which goes something like this
SOCIALISM
You have 2 cows.
You give one to your neighbour.COMMUNISM
You have 2 cows.
The State takes both and gives you some milk.TRADITIONAL CAPITALISM
You have two cows.
You sell one and buy a bull.
Your herd multiplies, and the economy grows.
You sell them and retire on the income.The email is doing the rounds at the moment. Well we now have the 2008 addition…
NU-LABOUR FREE MARKET CAPITALISM
You have two cows.
You sell three of them to your publicly listed company, using letters of credit opened by your brother-in-law at the bank, then execute a debt/equity swap with an associated general offer so that you get all four cows back, with a tax exemption for five cows.
The government commends you as an example of British success.
The milk rights of the six cows are transferred via an intermediary to a Cayman Island Company secretly owned by the majority shareholder who sells the rights to all seven cows back to your listed company.
The government gives you an honour in the new years list.
The annual report says the company owns eight cows, with an option on one more.
You sell one cow to make a donation to Nu-Labour, leaving you with nine cows.
No balance sheet provided with the release.
The public then buys your bull.Just seen this on Robert Pestons blog, and it made me
Our take on 2009? Universally BROWN.
Dull flat and uninspiring, whether that applies to GB Ltd, or GB (CEO GB Ltd, extremely Ltd. ).
Commodities will bottom out as will the markets, at 20% off where they are now.
More arrests will be made, as Capability Brown, is shown to be increasingly less so.
People will begin to realise what the color Brown, is reminiscent of, and its aroma (see… ‘Brownian Motion’: a phenomena which used to be taught in what were quaintly called ‘physics lessons’. Until 2004, children were cruelly forced to ‘get their heads around’ such difficult concepts if they wanted to get on a science course at Uni).
And Mystic Mog will point out that the French for ‘Brun’ is only a letter away from the old name for a Bear. We will be talking about ‘Brown Markets’ as well as ‘In a Brown study’
In short 2009 will be universally Brown, in all its possible connotations, and the famous Cherie Blair quote, so aptly made on the anouncement of her last pregnancy, and so neatly repeated by Ian Hislop:
‘We had forgotten how tedious Labour can be’
will ring down the annals of history, as the most apt comment ever made by a ‘first lady’.
A dreary procession of bankruptcies, foreclosures, job losses, pensiondectomies, and a decimation of the High Street will continue. As the BBC, mindful of its public duty, assures us that ‘without GB, it would have been MUCH WORSE’.
From the April 2009 Daily Mail:
"George Innocent, was driving his Discovery along the Strand, when a policeman flagged him down, and, pulling over to the kerb, he was immediately clamped by a parking attendant for ‘parking in a controlled zone’ and was instantly leapt upon by 20 armed officers on suspicion of ‘leaving a possibly exploding car, and a 4WD at that, in a position of national insecurity’. Later, after being arrested for resisting arrest, he was charged with being in possession of state secrets before it was realized that the laptop found in his car was in fact dropped by one of the arresting officers. He was finally charged and convicted of wasting police time, after having confessed for no apparent reason, to the Gunpowder plot and supporting Napoleon.
His fine, of �25,000 was held by the judge to be ‘punitive, but fair’ : ‘We have to offset to some extent the extraordinary amount of public money this man has wasted by his frivolous actions. We have little enough police resource as it is to cope with the daily domestic violence at No 10, without it being wasted on people like these: besides he can always sell his Discovery’. On being pointed out that the going rate for 5 year old Disco was in fact less than the cost of a loaf of bread at Tescos ( �135.23p) the Judge remarked’ well let him eat cake, instead. It’s gas guzzling antisocial people like this that have put the country in the state its in: He is lucky not to be given an ASBO’."
Meanwhile, the National Debt indicator is paralleled by the Genocide indicator, put up by Amnesty to count the number of people killed in the world as a result of direct action by ‘insurgents’ and ‘state sponsored armed militia’ or masterful inaction by governments who simply find it all to tedious to stop.
Additionally complex derivative financial instruments will be sold and traded, based on interesting combinations of which will run out first, money, people, oil, medicines, military ammunition or peoples’ patience with the color Brown.
Suicide rates among whistleblowers and Opposition MPs will rise to alarming proportions.
And the shoe industry will be nationalised, and all imports of foreign shoes will cease. Shoes will be one size fits all (for a "fairer Britain") and in only one Colour.
Brown.
And as an aside, can someone explain to me why Incapbility’s popularity is apparently growing??
May be this is deserving of a thread of its own, but as we’re discussing clandestine manouvers by the government….
Apparently, Jose Manuel Barroso (whoever that is), has revelealed that he believes Britain is closer than ever before to joining the euro.
I firmly believe that the Governemt should come clean regarding this issue and whether or not it is being discussed. Clearly, this goes against public opinion on the issue.
Surely, finally, this would be the final nail that brings down this shower of sh!te?
Agree completey with previous posters.
What is more worrying though is that I’m not actually that surprised at the news.
The ‘binge drinking’ culture (I hate how we have to have a term for everything nowadays, I mean, had anyone heard of a ‘credit crunch’ a couple of years ago) is also a contributor IMO. Certainly, I go to the pub on a Friday/Saturday down the local town and have a good few with mates. The amount of people who go to the local pub nowadays 5 nights a week and play tradtin games such as crib, dommies is on the steep decline it seems to me. If I do venture down my local club in the week for a few frames of snooker, it seems to be only the ‘old boys’ in there. Howmany youngsters (under 30 say) want crib when back at home theres Sky TV, playstations and the like? Not many from what I can see. Darts night does seem a notable excepton though.
Unions do have a very useful part to play, and it is a tragedy that this country stood by and let the monster Thatcher destroy their real power. It is unlikely the halcyon days of the early 70s will ever again be seen, bit if this recession continues apace and the government are forced to nationalise anything that moves then you never know.
I think having self satisfied coneited self serving management types on the back foot is a far better state of affairs.
Perhaps it was/is this ‘extremism’ of union support that did more harm to the overall perception of trade unions than anything else???
I would offer that the vast portion of modern society would read that and sh1t their pants at the thought!
Just checked into the forum, and for a split second, I thought “oh bollox, ive called the thread Onions!!”
Amusingly (well to me anyway) most people that were not in the union at the place I used to work called in The Onion.
In reponce to the post, Love um
Some decent comments on here, some that I hadn’t necessarily thought about. Again, maybe I should have titled the thread power rather than point.
However, I certianly haven’t read anything which fundamentally changes my view that unions are pretty toothless organisations in the modern world. It appears to me that they are looked at by a workforce primarily for pay issues. But as Clive points out often the company holds all the cards – accept the offer or lose the jobs…..
Alchemist, unions have been instrumental in making life at work better for us all. It’s not a political argument at all. They’ve helped with equal opportunities and pay. They promote the rights of ethnic minorities and women in the workplace. They make sure health and safety is a priority and that bosses consider ergonomics when designing and using tools. They help maintain pay levels in difficult circumstances.
As Moe says, they help with grievances, represent workers in tribunals (sometimes kangaroo courts), negotiate payoffs and help organise outplacement courses for people made redundant. They’ve been known to curb the worst excesses of the capitalist impulse too.
You get a lot for twenty five quid a year, sir. As for the threat of moving abroad, well, that’s unfortunate. Yet, I’ve heard rumours that several companies who’ve tried that are on the verge of coming back when things improve. A big chocolate maker, for example. The phenomenon – Insourcing? – is already happening in the US.
I’m not suggesting that historiclly unions haven’t dome so good work, I’m just not sure that they have much power nowadays (maybe power would have been a better title than point perhaps), and are a hangover from bygone days.
I don’t personally buy the health and safety issue as its primaily covered by law, and I’m not convinced by the grievances arguemet either – every place I knowof has a grievance procedure, and know of a couple of places at least where the union has been replaed by works councils.
As Paul says, I’m perfectly happy to negotiate for myself. £2 week – not for me.I also deffinately think that it can be linked back to politics. One cant argue the historical links between the Labour party and the unions.
I think it’s hard for the younger generation(s) to understand Arkle.
I’m only 26 and began watching racing the final season Dessie was around. My only memory of him to this day was that crashing fall he took in the ’91 King George.
It’s hard for many to imagine just how good Arkle and Dessie were. It’ll be the same when I’m (touch wood) telling the youngsters of tomorrow how good the likes of Istabraq, Moscow Flyer, Best Mate, Kauto Star and Denman were in forty or fifty years time.
Arkle didn’t belong to me, but I respect what he achieved and what he did for NH racing. I’d imagine he attracted a fair few people to the sport.
It’s the same in any sport. Older generations still reminisce about the likes of George Best and Bobby Charlton. Legendary players, but they don’t belong to todays generation and it’s futile trying to compare them to the likes of Cristiano Ronaldo and Steven Gerrard.
Arkle is THE legendary figure of NH racing. I believe his best winning time for a Gold Cup is only a second slower than the record. Incredible when you consider the advances in training, nutrition etc.
Clarification?
These are interesting points Bos. See this Arkle thing just doesn’t make sense to me. In just about every other sport (certianly that I can think of) athletes are considered to have immproved over time (training methods, etc) but some horse racing fans just absolutely flat refuse to accept this may be the case with horses. Any reason? Especially the craeful breeding of the breed over 40 years (on which I will admit I am no expect).
You quote Istabraq, Moscow etc as legends which they certainly are! But will you also be claiming that these could give approx 3 stone to other horses and still give them a schlacking? I doubt it, and even in you were, maybe a bit of the rose couloured glass syndrome? I would suggest so.
No, it make much more sence to suggest that there isn’t something quite correct about the figures at work here. maybe some of TRFs handicappers could inform me if it was, realisticallly, possible for a horse to ever achieve this figure ever again?
Shirer covers this episode in the chapter "Czechoslovakia Ceases To Exist", and more specifically on the indepandance of slovakia page 440-445.
Without reading it again, I guess that he covers the Sudetenland succession in the ‘Road to Munich’ Chapter.Max, guess that the responce was to me, rather than Andrew??
The point of my post was to get across that technically the British and French were not obliged to protect Checoslovakian borders, when the Slovakains declared indepence. This ultimately rendered previous agreements technically void. Shirer does himself cover this in more detail in The rise and Fall of the Third Reich. The sudetenland issue is covered by a, previous, separte set of circumastances to which you refer.
Whether morally it is so easily justified is a completely different matter…….
Grimes, firstly, let me make this clear, I am not an admirer of Hilter. I mearly came on here to make the point that he was not a half wit. Meglomaniac yes. deranged yes. half wit no.
Finally, there has been no word on ‘scortched earth’ because it the Russians that used the tactic, not the Germans.Clive, a treaty is a treaty. The British promised that if Germany invaded Czechoslovakia, we would declare war in Germany. We didn’t keep our promise for some reason
This is actually incorrect Max.
Germany supported a Slovakian indipendant state. They declared to the Slovakians that if they did not delcare independance immediately, they could no longer gurantee to hold Hungarian claims to their land. Therefore they declared independance, and telegramed to Berlin, requesting that Berlin guarantees Slovakinan independnce. Hilter responded that he would be glad to “take over the protection of the Slovak state”.The treaty which the English and French had previously signed guaranteed Chekoslovakian borders. Seen as this country had since ceased to exist, and one of the states had asked for German protection, technically there was no treaty to honour.
This gave the British and French thei out card, which they duly took.Hope this helps.
4. The German war machine couldn’t function without oil. The German’s used coal to oil technology. Who provided this technology?
A vast portion of its coal came from Sweden (hence Germanys occupatuion of Norway to protect its convoys heading south from Royal Navy intervention. Oil had intially been supplied by, I guess, Russia. Oil was a bit of a thorm in the side of Germany, and hence the main objective of Army group South during Barbarrossa, was to capture the oil fields of the Caucusus.Allowed? What were they supposed to do about it? Logistically it would have been extremely difficult to have prevented Hitlers actions
Not really Clivex, it would have been fairly straightforward for an Army the size of the French. Indeed, The western borders of germany were at this exect point almost defenceless.
One of Hitlers political masterstrokes.
