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Maybe not Dave, but as I’m currently in the market for trading in my old and buying a new Lexus, it’s the first thing this government has ever done for me.
Although no fan of zanuLabour and the Scargill / "screw-the-management-at-any-price" attitude that some Unions still exhibit, I’m all for Trade Unions.
I do a bit of work for Trade Unions / Solicitors and can see that they genuinely do good for people who might not otherwise know how to gain redress for blatant wrongs; for people who feel too intimidtaed to raise a valid complaint with a boss for fear of getting the chop or losing out on promotion or bonuses etc..
I might add though that the best thing that happened to the trade union movement in the last 30 years was the legislation introduced by Margaret Thatcher; secret ballots on industrial action in particular.
Tony Woodley of the T&G seems a dedicated fellow who genuinely believes in helping the lot of the worker, I have a lot of time for the guy on issues specific to the motor industry, but when he spouts on wider political / economic issues he talks (imo) utter sh*te and seems like a throwback from the lefty nutters of the union movement in the 60’s and 70’s that did so much harm to the union movement.
Trades Unions have yet to fully take on board that the people they represent are not automatically supporters of any one political party. The need for Unions to ally themselves with a political party no longer exists. A zanuLabour administration will pi*s on a section of workers in favour of another just as speedily as a Tory government would (or indeed the EU).Knocking 2.5% of VAT isn’t going to keep anyone in a job
agree…its a poor move simply because it wont have the "happy2 effect on consumers that is assumed
There are discounts everywhere anyway
if they wanted to create an immediate feel good, then income tax cut would have made sense or even the us bush style rebate. People would immediately see the cash that way, which makes a big psychological differnce
2.5% vat on a £500 tv is £12.50/neither here nor there
the most socialist pre-budget report to have been initiated under this government. I am really worried we’ve been taken over by the commies now!
Of the other arguments we’ve had on here about who is to blame for the situation, after today i’m in no doubt – never put a socialist government with a socialist phillosophy in charge of a capatilist infrasructure…
The shoring-up of a near-bankrupt capitalist financial system using tax payers’ money is in effect a ‘socialist’ redistribution of wealth, though in the wrong direction. That inevitably means further socialist economic instruments will have to be used in order to claw back the money. Initially through hefty public borrowing and later by equally hefty tax rises for those most able to afford the loss in net income: the proposed 45% rate on those earning more than 150K. And in the medium-to-longer term it is more than likely base rate income tax will rise along with corporation tax.
Do you believe the fate of the banks etc should have been left to the whims of the unregulated free-market you profess to adore, or was the ‘socialist’ interference by central government who reluctantly became "in charge of a capitalist infrastructure" the correct solution?
You can’t have it both ways
or was the ‘socialist’ interference by central government who reluctantly became "in charge of a capitalist infrastructure" the correct solution
They didnt
They bought a stakeholding and were markedly reluctant to exercise any control. Disgustingly, the banks they bought into are still paying out bonuses and more pathetically the goverment had to go and beg them to pass on the interest rate cut
Will it stop at the banks though, clivex?
Certainly, in that bastion of capitalism, the United States, the government are now being asked to shore-up not only the financial services sector, but large parts of the manufacturing sector; primarily the construction and motor industries.
Who is to say that something similiar won’t happen in the UK?
In general terms though, you have your head in the sand, as it pertains to HMG and UK Banks. The government is taking ‘preference’ shares in any institution is delivers a handout to, and therefore is very much ensuring that it has a requisite level of control for the collateral it injects. It may not be nationalisation on a grand scale, but it is nationalisation on a small scale – to suggest otherwise is to ignore the patently bleeding obvious.
and therefore is very much ensuring that it has a requisite level of control for the collateral it injects
so why did they have to beg them to pass on the rate cuts????
and why the polictically inept continuation of bonuses????
and it is a tragedy that this country stood by and let the monster Thatcher destroy their real power. It is unlikely the halcyon days of the early 70s will ever again be seen,
LOL
Power cuts, three day week, endless strikes, declining economy, "sick man of europe". Halcyon days!
Paul…would you like to add to that?
It was only because of the American right wing’s obsessive paranoia with the spread of Communism that a two term maximum was set after FDRs death, and that laissez-faire government became the order of the day
do what? wheres the source for that one?
and it is a tragedy that this country stood by and let the monster Thatcher destroy their real power. It is unlikely the halcyon days of the early 70s will ever again be seen,
LOL
Power cuts, three day week, endless strikes, declining economy, "sick man of europe". Halcyon days!
Paul…would you like to add to that?
I really seriously thought about it Clive, and even started penning a reply, but is it really worth it?
Although it was very amiss of you to miss out not being able to bury the dead as well.
And I’m old enough to remember Harold having his union puppeteers round for beer and sandwiches at No 10 as they gave him his instructions as to what to mess up next.
Anyway if we really want to see how good a union man really is in action may I present the well known bar steward Mr John "thumper" Prescot whose idea of engaging with the electorate is to punch them in the head – that about sums up the intellectual capability of your average union activist.
my partner was made redundant a couple of years ago when another company took over his; they tried to screw over the workers in every way possible and it was only the union that secured a decent redundancy package for them.
PI really seriously thought about it Clive, and even started penning a reply, but is it really worth it?
one minute its the halcyon days of the seventies and the its
that the mid-70s crisis in the UK economy
Why don’t you try and find one? You who’s so good with his cut and pasting from wikipedia or the Daily Mail website.
errr no….i think that the onus is on you to back up your bizarre claims
really seriously thought about it Clive, and even started penning a reply, but is it really worth it?
As above Paul…answer is clearly no
Unions do have a very useful part to play, and it is a tragedy that this country stood by and let the monster Thatcher destroy their real power. It is unlikely the halcyon days of the early 70s will ever again be seen, bit if this recession continues apace and the government are forced to nationalise anything that moves then you never know.
I think having self satisfied coneited self serving management types on the back foot is a far better state of affairs.
Perhaps it was/is this ‘extremism’ of union support that did more harm to the overall perception of trade unions than anything else???
I would offer that the vast portion of modern society would read that and sh1t their pants at the thought!Unions have played a huge part in British life after the most brutal industrial revolution of all the developed nations. On any dimension you care to highlight – child mortality, health, addiction, poverty – unions needed to emerge to counter the madness anf greed of the factory owners and the mercantile classes.
Yet we still need unions. Famously, we work the longest hours in Europe. As a nation, we have a dysfunctional work life balance. Parents are exhausted, sexless, alcoholic sleep-and-work machines. In France and Germany – heavily unionised nations – there are lower levels of crime, teenage pregnancy and drug addiction because their societies have more free time. Time for friends. Time for learning. Time for leisure.Time for families and the kids.
Currently, Britain PLC is the bonk capital of Europe for fourteen year old girls partially because the nation’s parents are working hundred-hour weeks. Unions have a role to play in the future, a lobbying role, in addressing this imbalance.
I can never understand the Right’s authoritarian distrust, even hatred, of the unions. What’s wrong with more holiday? What’s wrong with a work life balance? Bank holidays? Equal rights for women and ethnic minorities? Health and safety improvements? A fairer share of company profits?
Unions have been instrumental over the years in bringing all this to the table and yet, the Right detest them for it. It’s illogical.
What sort of society is it where the boss has all the top nosh and the rest of us live on the crumbs spilled from his table?
Paul, if someone threw an egg at you from point blank range what would you do?
I would not hit them – violence is not an answer and is not justified
my partner was made redundant a couple of years ago when another company took over his; they tried to screw over the workers in every way possible and it was only the union that secured a decent redundancy package for them.
As I have mentioned before, my missus is an HR manager, and she has told me about countless occasions when staff have been treated like dirt, and it is more often than not the few who do have union membership who are able to get themselves a decent settlement.
I have worked through any number of rounds of redundancies and it is particularly sad to see people who felt a loyalty to the company being totally distraught at the complete lack of loyalty the management show as soon as some savings have to be made. I am not talking about now either, when we are faced with exceptional circumstances. I am talking about periods when companies chose to outsource whole regional and national departments to other countries, or simply applied that great euphemism "rationalisation" purely becasue some poxy Finance Director wanted to make a name for himself.
The problem is and has always been that private sector companies which are run purely to make profits rather than for for the greater good of our society do not have any regard whatsoever for the individual working man or woman, with mortgages/rents to pay and mouths to feed. When the unions were strong they gave such people a voice, power and most importantly hope. That all disappeared in May 1979.
That is your perspective Firefox and if you want to live in what you see to be some Utopian wonderland than I wish you well, although I think you will find your options running out as, I think, only Cuba (and perhaps some tinpot African states) have anything aproaching the "ideal" you seem to espouse.
The rest of us live in the real world.
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