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So you think the current plight of the country after nearly 30 years of uninterrupted free market capitalism is a glowing success? Perhaps I might refer you to another thread on here where it was pointed out that the mid-70s crisis in the UK economy has been attriubted in many well informed quarters to a very deliberate and polictically motivated gilt strike led by the massed ranks of the capitalist leadership, on the promise form the Tories that they would "deal with the unuions once and for all".
Certainly the first 20 years was, the "plight" began in 1997.
You make your latter assertion from the perspective that dealing with the unions "once and for all" is a bad thing – that is a perspective many of us do not share.
The best thing Mrs Thatcher did with the unions was bring in democracy when it came to strike ballots, thus undermining the political bully boys who used intimidation to force strikes through.
max
I would check your facts if i were you
In France and Germany – heavily unionised nations – there are lower levels of crime, teenage pregnancy and drug addiction because their societies have more free time
In only 8 out of the current 27 member states of the European Union (EU) are more than half of the employed population members of a trade union. In fact, the EU’s four most populated states all have modest levels of unionisation, with Italy at 30%, the UK 29%, Germany 27% and France at only 9%.
http://www.fedee.com/tradeunions.htmlI
I would also be very sceptical about any claims that crime rates are lower in France and germany than here. Havent got any stats to hand at the moment
I wont even start on the extremely tenuous claims that strikes have led to a reduction in teenage pregnancies
The best thing Mrs Thatcher did with the unions was bring in democracy when it came to strike ballots, thus undermining the political bully boys who used intimidation to force strikes through
exactly. One of the best and most important pieces of policy in the last fifty years
Scargill (possibly the thickest and most incompetent leader of any grouping this country has seen…was he mentally ill?) boldly stated that strikes were politically motivated. he didnt even hide the fact that this was clear subversion of democracy (a system he despised)
you would think that Thatcher had actually banned unions wouldnt you? Just like they did in the old eastern bloc and still do in many islamist countries….
Clive, you’re cherry picking arguments again. I’ll check the statistics out later and publish them *sigh*.
Let me ask you a question. What have you got against organisations that have brought so many benefits to the working man and woman (i.e. the majority) over the past one hundred and fifty years? I listed them earlier.
Let me ask you another. How would the working man and woman have gained those benefits without unions? The British working environment in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries was a cruel place, as you well know.
Again you have got your facts wrong
I havent stated that i have anything "against" them. I agree about past sucesses. But it all went rapidly out of control (and still is in pockets like the RMT)
As for checking those facts, you based your statements on the levels of union membership, whcih were entirely the opposite of your assumptions and frankly blow your whole post out of the water
It was something i just happened to know anywayI cant usually be botehred correcting side issues, but this was hardly nit picking
I would suggest you delete your post in shame now
I went to see Scargill by the way in Calverton Miners Welfare at the height of the strike, Clive. He was a real tubthumper; with something of an O’Connor about him. He could see the darkness lurking in the soul of his enemy – it’s just a pity others couldn’t.
I know you’re no fan of the North, Clive, but you really should travel up to see the communities Scargill was naively trying to protect. You’d also see why he was trying to protect them. Some of them are a bit of a mess even twenty five years later.
Btw, what am I supposed to be ashamed about and what facts have I got wrong?
Union membership levels in the EEC? Please try and read my posts thoroughly….
To spell it out again, youi compared the crime free, happy clappy, heavily unionised Germany and France with the lightly unionised anarchic crime ridden UK.
But UK has THREE times the level of union membership of France and 10% greater than Germany.
I have no problem with the "north" at all. My family was from the NW (and despised the Yorkshireman Scargill as it happens) .
Thanks for that Clive – just spent my lunch hour sorting through statistics on union membership and other stuff! Very dry.
Did you know that Volkswagen have just signed a deal which reduces monthly pay by 9% in return for a guaranteed job for seven years? I wouldn’t mind a bit of that. Contrast that to the Death of Rover four years ago.
There’s the usual boss stuff too – the shameful justification of shutting plants down to move the whole lot to Hungary and Estonia.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ … eague.html
We don’t fare too well with society though, Clive. We’re a criminal lot apparently, Worst in Europe. Selfishness, huh!
Second to Ireland it might be added!
Would not deny for a minute that crime is far too prevalent in this country and anyone visting various continental cities will feel more at ease than they will in many of our towns
Is it "society" or is it a little bit of our culture?
I wouldnt disagree we do work too hard and dont value free time enough. The workaholic culture (which i feel is subsiding a bit) is plain stupid and in fact alienates genuine talent in most businesses. i think unions can play a part here but they need to act more like the old Industrial Society rather than the RMT
I think one of the posters on this thread is here at Kempton this afternoon!!!
Walking around wearing a Russian Comrades hat – complete with a party badge …. so which one of you guys is it?
But you still cannot provide a source for your claim that restricting president terms to two was designed to prevent a communist takeover of america
You also clearly do not know anything about the background to the two term presidency
I couldnt give a fck which CSE’s you took
Did you know that Volkswagen have just signed a deal which reduces monthly pay by 9% in return for a guaranteed job for seven years? I wouldn’t mind a bit of that. Contrast that to the Death of Rover four years ago.
Not a deal Red Robbo would have accepted….
Tough financially for those involved but a sign of the times, where job security is valued
But will hit VW hard if in 4 years time say, sales have dropped off the side of a cliff…..
The type of deal that has led GM and Chrysler to where it is now perhaps?
This debate should stick to the orginal points
Frankly any argument in favour of communism is somewhat blown apart by its near 100% failure rate whenever it is imposed
Show me one successful prosperous communist country (and dont dare describe China as such…that would be idiotic now) and we will show you 50 successful prosperous liberal democracies
And we wont even get onto human rights
A debate for those who dont take their medication
Move on or get back to original topic
Once we had heavy industries that were the envy of the world. Now we have nothing, because as McMillan said she sold the family silver
Not worth reading right through that post but
Do you understand anything at all about British post war industry and economics?
Do you really think that our "heavy industry" was "envy" of the world in 1979?
And if it wasnt, why was that? Might it be because of the dead hand of goverment nationalisation and unions out of control?
Have you ever heard of British Leyland? Britsh Steel and its huge losses and unproductive plants? Shipbuilders completely out priced and outperformed by competeitors from Asia (south korea mostly)?
Envy of the world? The Austin Allegro?
I notice also you selectively ignore the point about the closure of the British Ship yards that gave Thatcher her election winning war in the South Atlantic.
Bizarre….you subsidise an industry because of something they supplied 20 years previously?
You cannot (again) answer the points or justify your laughable claim that british heavy industry was " the envy of the world " in 1979
You have no understanding or concept of how markets work or basic economics. You are again out of your depth
France denationlised most of its heavy industry (Steel and cars spring to mind) in th 1990’s. They simply followed our lead. You dont even check basic facts
any economist that suggested that our economy and society was in a "halcyon" period in the 1970s and that our induistry was the "envy of the world" before "thatcher sold it" would be sectioned
Waste of time. i will now let someone else correct your numerous factual errors, unbackable statements and hopeless politics
If they can be bothered
For others reading
Given you claim on other, usually race related threads I must say, to be patriotic
We do not have "race related" threads here. How stupid would that be?
I do not and have not claimed to be "patriotic". Not once have i made that claim and frankly i cringe at any flag waving
Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it.
Shaw
It is extremely tiresome having to correct on a public forum unsubstantiated claims from other posters. The BNP support being another of this particular members claims about yours truely.
the moderators have to clamp down on this. Difficult i know, but recently on anotehr forum a poster with very similar style to that seen above was banned for dishing out much of the same
It was something i just happened to know anyway- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.