Home › Forums › Big Races – Discussion › Fighting Fifth 2009
- This topic has 87 replies, 31 voices, and was last updated 16 years, 5 months ago by
Peruvian Chief.
- AuthorPosts
- November 24, 2009 at 20:36 #260369
Having looked at the card for the Fighting Fifth,i cannot believe
Binocular
is not 8/11fav!Bookmakers are offering
Evens
,now the ground is Good/Soft which wont cause any problems,but if the ground turns very soft then Solwhit will get the better of him!N,Henderson doesn"t send them up north unfit,as Punjabi and Landing light will vouch for!The problem is,its not the field that will beat Binny,but the ground and if it stays goodish then he goes odds on!On a flat speed track like Newcastle Binny will beat Solwhit!Ground permitting!Decisions decisions!!
November 24, 2009 at 20:54 #260373If Binocular is anything less than in top form I think he’ll struggle to beat Solwhit. Too close to call. Sublimity can’t be ruled out and an e/w play (Sportingbet go 1,2,3) on him at 10/1 may not be a bad play antepost
November 24, 2009 at 21:07 #260376Only three winners of this in the last 20 years have gone on to win the following years’ Champion – Kribensis, Beech Road and Punjabi.
November 24, 2009 at 21:13 #260378Only three winners of this in the last 20 years have gone on to win the following years’ Champion – Kribensis, Beech Road and Punjabi.
There will be no change there then!
November 25, 2009 at 20:50 #260494i’ll be going up to watch this one, cannot miss the opportunity to see binocular and solwhit.
the rain we’ve had should suit solwhit i think, it’s rained every day for about 10 days up here on and off.November 26, 2009 at 10:16 #260559
AnonymousInactive- Total Posts 17716
Don’t understand all this talk about how the going would make a big difference to the outcome.
Newcastle isn’t Cheltenham where heavy ground would definitely swing things in Solwhit favour but I doubt if he is in the same class that he would beat him on a course like Newcastle. Horses who win races on heavy ground do so in the main because it hinders others who don’t act on it. There is no way it would hinder Binocular as much as it would a horse like Punjabi who has either not run to his best on it or didn’t have to.
What’s Solwhit beat to justify price in this or the Champion Hurdle?: beat an undercooked Hurricane Fly who Muirhead also finished in front of on the day. Beat Punjabi on heavy ground after the season he had?
I don’t think he has the form or the class to get Binocular out of cruise mode.
11/10 and evens?….For once I think the bookies lost the plot on this one and I’ve been using a shovel to get money on
. I’ll be shocked if he’s not between 8/11 and 4/7 on the day and even more surprised/poorer if he loses..
November 26, 2009 at 11:10 #260571I disagree and believe Solwhit could be top class, along with Zaynar. His victory over 543 on goodish ground at Aintree, when 543 was fit and primed, showed just what a talent he has. He has beaten the reigning Champion Hurdler and won effortlessly without having a race the other day, showing his acceleration over 2m. Binocular is worthy of being a flat-track champion but he’ll get one hell of a race in this, whatever the outcome.
November 26, 2009 at 22:28 #260664I’m gonnae try and leave this race alone. Solwhit is underestimated by many because they missed the bus and didn’t back him. He’s won battles in heavy, saw off fiveforfree over 20f and won a race in the fog !
Bincular will probably want to track Solwhit, and Solwhit will want to track Binocular.
It’s shaping up brilliantly. I like them both. What i do like about Solwhit is his ability to just find a bust of pace at the right time and take the fence as if it’s not there even though he’s bombing it over.
It’s also hard to separate them when i’m unsure of the ground. Let battle commence ! Solwhit isn’t a horse many would fancy going over the last neck and neck against.
Get me a fence to sit on.
November 26, 2009 at 22:51 #260671
AnonymousInactive- Total Posts 17716
If the ground is either good or good-to-soft they won’t see which way Binocular goes. If it comes up soft or heavier, Solwhit has a huge chance (Binocular has run well on an easy surface in the past, but Solwhit looks by the far better suited by it).
November 26, 2009 at 23:21 #260674Not a betting race for me. However Sublimity could be overpriced and might be able to upset the big two. Not sure Go Native will be good enough. I dont think there has been so many irish raiders for one race outside of cheltenham for a while. 5 of 7 declared are from across the Irish sea.
November 27, 2009 at 07:37 #260695
AnonymousInactive- Total Posts 17716
I disagree and believe Solwhit could be top class, along with Zaynar. His victory over 543 on goodish ground at Aintree, when 543 was fit and primed, showed just what a talent he has. He has beaten the reigning Champion Hurdler and won effortlessly without having a race the other day, showing his acceleration over 2m. Binocular is worthy of being a flat-track champion but he’ll get one hell of a race in this, whatever the outcome.
Well it’s only my opinion but this is the classic mistake punters make every year.
I can give you many examples of a top horse not being 100% first time out but a challenger being 110% fit. Kauto Star V Exotic Dancer in the Betfair Chase when he ran him to 1/2 length was a classic, more recently Kauto Star V Imperial Commander, Well Chief V Master Minded.
Many trainers go scalp hunting early doors as they know most of the top dogs are never spot on and it’s the best time to try and bring them down.
I have serious doubt about the worth of Solwhit’s form. You can ignore the fact Punjabi had a hard season, ignore the fact he doesn’t like the ground and ignore that fact543 is a stayer who was being aimed at the RSA.
As far as his later win goes, Hurricane Fly I would say blew up between the last 2. When that it makes any horse vulnerable and can make another look much better than he actually is.
I certainly don’t see it as true run race if you look at it closely. Take HF out of it and Solwhit has beaten Muirhead who is known for being flat in a finish by 2 1/2 lengths. The same horse he beat over 10 lengths last year. I would expect him to be able to do that any day of the week.
Anyway tomorrow he takes on the best hurdler in the country, not a half fit horse just out of novice class. There’s more than the Fighting Fifth prize at stake with the million pound bonus up for grabs, so you can expect Binocular to be well ready for this.
November 27, 2009 at 07:54 #260696
AnonymousInactive- Total Posts 17716
Not a betting race for me. However Sublimity could be overpriced and might be able to upset the big two. Not sure Go Native will be good enough. I dont think there has been so many irish raiders for one race outside of cheltenham for a while. 5 of 7 declared are from across the Irish sea.
Glad to hear it’s not a betting race for you. My problem with Sublimity is he doesn’t really get 2 miles in a strong run race. He’ll come there in his usual fashion full of running then stop if this race is run at the pace I expect.
The only reason he won the Champion Hurdle is because everything around him was dead on their feet from 3 out. His only win since came when he beat Won in the Dark and Ruby said he wouldn’t beat Brave Inca next time if they got a decent gallop. Sublimity and Brave Inca met next time and when Hardy Eustace suddenly upped the tempo Sublimity as usual went out like a light. I’d rather have Won in the Dark ew at 50/1 if there was 8 runners than Sublimity at 16/1.
If there was going to be an upset it would have to come from Go Native who is a pig of a horse. No offence to his connections but how else can you describe a horse who has so much talent but appears not to use it 9 times out of 10.
He reminds me of a junior Harchibald and we all know what he could do on a going day. Mind you if he does win they should take Noel Meade out and hang him from the nearest tree
November 27, 2009 at 11:17 #260719Anyway tomorrow he takes on the best hurdler in the country
I appreciate the different angle available on Solwhit, but there is absolutely no way in this world Binocular is the best hurdler in the country. Twice beaten at the festival. It is PUNJABI who is the reigning Champion Hurdler, PUNJABI who showed the greater tactical speed around Cheltenham and PUNJABI who they all have to beat.
Worth clarifying I think!!
November 27, 2009 at 11:38 #260722Binocular’s form in winning the reschduled Bula was better than that shown by Punjabi in the Champion Hurdle, Big Buck’s. Binocular is the better horse, imo.
November 27, 2009 at 11:46 #260726I can’t see how for the life of me. His best run was in the Champion Hurdle, where he was beaten fair and square on the day. A huge disservice to Punjabi, the Champion Hurdler, to say at present he is not the best 2m hurdler. IMO.
None of that will stop Binocular being impressive in this race of course. I’ve not had a bet in the Champion Hurdle but I’m hoping Solwhit can give him a real test, or maybe the other way round.
November 27, 2009 at 12:03 #260729Binocular’s thrashing of Celestial Halo at Ascot last season is far superior form to the Champion Hurdle imo. Winning at Cheltenham in March doesn’t make a horse the best just as Burnley beating Man Utd doesn’t make them a better team. Punjabi was better than Binocular on the day in March but I very much doubt he is a ‘better’ horse
November 27, 2009 at 12:14 #260733I see. So big-field at the festival, beaten 2nd; big-field at the festival, beaten 3rd….but hold on, looks flashy in a race with only one opponent (who was nowhere near his best that day), a race that you couldn’t throw in his favour any more than what happened that day, and suddenly he’s the "best around". LOL.
No wonder he was a ridiculous price for the Champion in March and, oh look, he’s a bit of a silly price for the contest this time around too. Must be just a coincidence.
- AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.