- This topic has 91 replies, 20 voices, and was last updated 4 years ago by
.
- Posts
I can come up with two names, Marlingford:
Opera Hat who ran in almost 40 chases and was quite consistent at the highest level, but still inferior to PTKO.
Brief Gale won a Sun Alliance Chase in style, but only ran twice afterwards. Obviously not a 2-miler and also inferior to PTKO.
Anaglog’s Daughter is the correct answer 😎
And she ran a million times a season.
How good would she have been with modern training/racing methods? 🤔
Dawn Run, Anaglogs Daughter and Annie Power would be my idea of the all-time top three Jumping mares.
It’s not about “putting respect on a name” (whatever that IMO ludicrous term is meant to mean) but about viewing every racehorse in overall historical context.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"It’s not she has gone to stud that disappoints me, it’s the fact she was sold. It is not something I could have done.
Ian, you say if only horses could talk. My experience of working with horses isn’t huge but I did spend some months working OK Arabians in Newmarket (ernst Oertel and Sarah Kelleway) for part of that time I was looking after the pregnant mares and the foals that had already been delivered. One of the pregnant mares definitely taught me how she wanted to be treated, through body language and refusal to do what I wanted to do, lead from the field she had been in all day back through three gates and fields back to her box. At first she went willingly enough but by the time she was ready to deliver, she had trained me to just walk with her, opening and closing gates, of course, until she arrived safely in her box. I loved that whole experience and I’ve tried to learn from it. Sorry, the ramblings and reminiscences of someone who is fast approaching 80, if I get the trip.
If there are three tiers of Champion Chase Winners (The MEGABEAST tier, the awesome tier – Master Minded, Sizing Europe, Moscow Flyer, Altior, Azertyuiop, probably Big Zep, Voy Por Ustedes and Energ…this year’s winner – and the rest), then she is in the top half of the third tier. But she is still in that list and she beat some good horses to win her CC.
BlueSky @pghenn.bsky.social
So don't run, just like the others always do
My idea of the all-time best specialist 2m chasers: Sprinter Sacre, Moscow Flyer, Azertyuiop, Well Chief, Douvan.
I decline to use superlatives – numbers convey more to me – but Sprinter Sacre was a great horse and three of the other quartet, at the very least, were very good horses in a mini-golden era for 2m chasers.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Sprinter Sacre, Badsworth Boy and Master Minded top the tree for me. Interesting that all three of them were at their most impressive in their first Champion Chase win.
The Moscow Flyer/Azertyuiop/Well Chief triumvirate, together with the vastly underrated Pearlyman, would comprise my next tier, with the likes of Remittance Man and Viking Flagship next.
In a historical context, Put The Kettle On is a poor Champion Chase winner, but she could only beat what was up against her on the day (although I still think Sceau Royal would have won with a clear run). Anaglog’s Daughter would have had her for breakfast.
And this is where people get upset, especially the younger ones.
I kinda get it – I first got properly into racing in 1977 and thought The Minstrel (Derby/Irish Derby/King George) must be the best thing since sliced bread.
Turned out he wasn’t necessarily even the best 3yo in his own yard that year (Alleged).
And Alleged wasn’t one of the greats either, dual Arc winner notwithstanding.
The longer you follow this game the greater your perspective and the less inclined to use the word “great” or “superstar” you become.
Smashing mare, Put The Kettle on, but absolutely not one of the greats.
Sorry.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"“Smashing mare, Put The Kettle on, but absolutely not one of the greats.
Sorry.”
There is no need to apologise for that observation, ID. It is an objective statement of fact backed up by the ratings.
Put The Kettle On is one of the best examples of where the 7 lbs allowance makes a real difference. She would never have won the Champion Chase without it. That compromises her victory, in my opinion.
Just because a horse wins one big race does not necessarily make them great. The same argument applies in other sports. I could list several golfers who won one Major Championship. I do not believe this alone makes them better players than the likes of Colin Montgomerie or Lee Westwood, who won none between them but clearly had better careers as a whole.
Likewise I can think of two players – Andy North and Lee Janzen – who won two majors. Using that criteria alone, it makes them the equal of Greg Norman. Which is clearly absurd!
What a lovely story Colin and what beautiful memories you have of your time working in Newmarket, your love of horses shines through and like you I could never dream of selling a horse that had done do much for me. I would have put what remained of her winnings, after expenses, into a special fund towards her retirement and made sure she always remained part of my life …sentimental yes but who cares she earned it.
JacThings turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...I was thinking the same. I’ve read someone saying she deserves respect, which she does. Not claiming she is a ‘Great’.
As a commited non-fan (to say the least) of Mares only races, I admire PTKO’s excellent record. Dawn Run had the mares allowance too, did she not?
BUY THE SUN
My apologies to Strawmen (and ladies) everywhere – I perhaps mistakenly interpreted the demand for “respect” as inferring greatness.
I would say that in beating Wayward Lad and Forgive N Forget in the Cheltenham Gold Cup Dawn Run ran to a higher level than Put The Kettle on ever did.
I backed Wayward Lad win only at 12/1 btw, and tipped him in the Racing & Football Outlook Week End Special, but I dare say I will get over it one day.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"My point regarding the allowance for in response to CAS’s point – “She would never have won the Champion Chase without (the Mares allowance) it. That compromises her victory, in my opinion.”
I would say Dawn Runs Gold Cup is comparable regarding the allowance. Is her Gold Cup compromised? Last thing we need is Cork and his mates dragging her Statue down and lobbing it in a river!
BUY THE SUN
I am sure the straw people will get over it Ian
Brief Gale that RubyLight mentions is an interesting horse to recall. At the time that she won the SunAlliance Chase she looked a potential superstar. She beat Harcon, the “next Arkle” of that era, and Banjo, who also looked hugely promising. Sadly the form did not amount to a great deal afterwards and, after two subsequent disappointing performances, her career was over.
Her statue is safe, TTC!
I accept it was a great story, with her being the only horse to win the two big Cheltenham races and the finish is always exciting to watch. But once you get over that, the fact she carried less weight than poor old Wayward Lad does put a small asterisk next to her victory.
Sorry, miserable I know – but I just think the allowance is over generous.
Jac
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.