Frankel and the other three.

[Jonibake]

Fantastic blog about Frankel on the RP website today by Sam Walker –

http://www.racingpost.com/news/live.sd?event_id=196067

"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"

[ivanjica]

Of the 109 horses rated by Timeform 135 or above, 55 had won one or more of the following races: Epsom Derby, Eclipse, King George, Arc, BC Classic or Kentucky Derby. I have included the American races based on an early post by Ugly Mare. The list of horses with 135+ ratings includes Ghostzapper and Cigar, both of whom won the BC Classic.

Of the 55 winners of one of more of these races, I was surprised to find that only 10 Eclipse winners appeared in the list, placing even more emphasis on the 12f events.
Using this pool of horses one could conclude that whilst the winning of one of the high profile and established 10f + races is of some significance, it is not the be all and end all of measuring a horse’s greatness.

However I have noted that as you reduce the pool by removing the lowest rated first, the significance of winning one of these races seems to increase. For instance starting from 137+ rated horses the incidence of winners increases markedly (26 v 17).

Once you reduce the pool to 140+ rated (the category usually most associated with “greatness”) you end up with 9 winners of one of the middle distance championship races and 5 who did not.
Of those five, Windy City failed to train on when campaigned in America so doesn’t really count.

Both Tudor Minstrel and Abernant were dropped back to a mile and sprint distances respectively having been tried as 3-y-o’s at trips where stamina was a concern. They are probably the two one would most compare with Frankel. They both had stamina doubts at the time of their classic campaigns, however connections were happy to let them line up in the Derby (Tudor Minstrel, who had already won the Newmarket classic in a style similar to Frankel’s) and 2,000 Guineas (Abernant). Tudor Minstrel simply pulled too hard in the Derby (perhaps like Frankel would have done, although personally I would have liked to have seen him take his chance) however it left no mark as he sauntered home in the St James’s Palace Stakes before failing to stay the Eclipse trip.

Dubai Millennium’s career was cruelly cut short before he could contest one of these races – the BC Classic would probably have been the most likely though the manner of his POW win may have reignited hopes he would stay the Arc trip.

I have said it before but I cannot help but think Frankel’s connections have become preoccupied with preserving his unbeaten record as opposed to letting him contest any of the great races that have been discussed at length on this thread. Whilst they are entitled to do so what will be the net result? If he has three more races in his career and wins them, he will retire unbeaten in 15 career starts – placing him 9th on the all-time list, and one behind Ribot and Ormonde.

He will also end his career the winner of 11 Group 1s – an achievement exceeded by thirteen horses.

In his essay on Sea-Bird in “A Century of Champions” John Randall described the Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe as “always Europe’s championship race”. Obviously there have been some bad winners of the Arc, just as there have been the Derby, King George and Eclipse. However it is probably no coincidence that these great races were graced by the likes of Sea-Bird, Brigadier Gerard, Mill Reef, Dancing Brave, Sea The Stars and Shergar.

It is therefore understandable that some racing enthusiasts would like to see Frankel run in at least one of these races, because as recently as 2009 the highest rated horse since Dancing Brave was asked to race in three of these contests and won them all. As with Tudor Minstrel, trying and failing should have no negative effect on the horse’s reputation as an all-time great. However never having tried may leave a question mark hanging over him.

I fail to see how hoping for such a great horse as Frankel to grace at least one of the great, long established middle distance events is “living in the past”, especially given the abundant stamina in his pedigree.

[Gingertipster]

I just want to ask those of you who don’t feel that the Arc would suit on the grounds of stamina: ‘If Frankel is recording the same fractions inside the final two furlongs over a mile and a quarter as he does over eight, would you not be tempted by the Arc – the greatest all-age middle distance race in the world?’

I know it’s incredibly unlikely that connections will go for the Arc, even though there is every possibility that York will give us reason to believe that he could stay the trip. I’m not saying that Frankel has to win an Arc to be regarded as the best we have seen, but if the evidence suggests that he has the potential to stay twelve furlongs then why not aim the greatest horse on the planet at arguably the most coveted race in europe?

I do fear that romance is disappearing from the sport sometimes.

The last 2 furlongs won’t be as quick over 1m2f unless it is particularly firm ground or a very slow pace.

The only thing that would persuade me Frankel should go for the Arc, would be if he won a stongly run International on Heavy ground easily. ie A stamina test at 10f.

Value Is Everything

[Hurdygurdyman]

Unfortunately it’s Henry that needs to be convinced and not you Ginger and that’s an impossible task by the looks of things.

To be honest Frankel’s cruising speed is so high for me he’d get 12 furlongs without a shadow of a doubt.

When you watch the Sussex TQ hasn’t moved a muscle on him but Frankie has already gone for everything on Farhh. He is just ambling along but already has a top class horse in big trouble.

I just can’t see a situation where any 12 furlong horse could go fast enough to get him out of cruise control to such an extent it would tap into his stamina. If all Frankel has to do to keep up is canter he could go round a racecourse 3 times and take next to nothing out of himself.

How many times have we seen horses win beyond their ultimate trip because the race turned into a sprint off a slow pace? Get the same horse at it from 2 furlong out of a strong pace and then his stamina will give out.

Maybe somewhere in his breeding it says he won’t stay but his style of running and his ability to cruise at exceptionally high speeds says differently.

Whatever happens or whatever one thinks of Frankel I think the great Peter O’Sullivan summed it up perfectly when he said "He is breathtaking and is certainly worth staying alive for"

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