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I don’t mine being called boring and nasty.Now if Frankel is caught on the line in the Juddmont I will not say an unkind word.That is a promise.Incidentally I have spoken in the highest terms about Frankel in another post.If he wins I will join the wild cheering.
As for the other two you referred to; Sir Henry is a perfect gentleman,a world class trainer, a lover of horses amd of roses,soft spoken and kind.A patron of young jockeys and what more can I say? Joseph O’Brien is a gentleman and a young boy surrounded with all the privileges that wealth and position by birth can provide.I continue to await his maturing as a jockey.
There are only a few incidents or occasions around racing that warrant discussion even in the forum.I tend to focus on those few things.Look at the subjects being discussed under Horse Racing and you will understand what I mean.yes it can be argued any horse can enter the sussex other than frankel, but thats not always the case. whats frankel got left to achieve at a mile? fair enough it will be the first horse to win the race twice, but thats absurd.
ill never be able to take frankel seriously unless it runs over further. andyods comment on the galileo breeding etc sums it up perfectly.
Actually, you might be able to compare him to Arsenal but only if he does retire unbeaten, just as Arsenal are the only team to have finished a season in the greatest football league in the world unbeaten, invincible
Can’t see Frankel managing another 26 unbeaten though, even if they were all as easy as tomorrow’s walkover against second division opposition.
If he’s going to match their feat he’s going to need a poor decision on his behalf from the stewards…
How does the attributor of malice intend to stand over such a charge?
Many of us have been long time contributors to the Racing Forum and I for one have never seen this charge be used before.It goes to the heart of what the forum stands for.Freedom of expression and an honest contribution to the discussion.If the charge was levelled at me I would like to see it proven.In fact I would like to see it proven no matter who it was levelled against.Had I known that such a charge would be made I would never contribute.So either prove the charge or withdraw it.
I don’t. It’s my perception of the reasons Frankel and Sir Henry Cecil are being roundly criticised by and large on the internet racing forums and I’m not backtracking on it. Your own posts in the past have proven it in your case on a number of occasions.
As for the rallying cry to other ‘contributors’, obviously designed to engender support from other members? Grow up Andy! I don’t mind holding my hands up when I think I’ve spoken rashly or behaved poorly, but if you think I’m going to run scared of a few strong opinions on here you’ve got the wrong man.
Not in my opinion. You are presuming that the horse gets further than a mile. That’s your perogative but I’m much happier taking the wisdom of Sir Henry than your’s or any other onlooker. I also have felt in the past that the horse looks capable of getting further, however it is pure speculation on mine or anyone else’s part.
To pick at the horse or its connections on no other basis than that YOU think the horse should get further is unfair. To crib the horse because it hasn’t run to the plan you think it should is petty and unwarranted IMO.
…No, you’ve got the wrong end of the stick. At no time have I ever said I think he should be seen over further because
I
believe he get’s the trip.
Plenty of other’s have made those claims but not me. It is very telling that he has not been tried over further up to this time, as quite clearly I would have thought, the confidence in him winning a Gr. 1 in England, Ireland or France, over 10f, was not sufficient to put him to that test and any assertions to the contrary, such as I often see ”would have won the Arc/Champion Stakes” – you name it – are founded purely on speculation, and I repeat, certainly not from this member.
As I recall, he was given a light 3 year old campaign, [and I regard 1 race after midsummer as ‘light’] in order that he stay in training with Cecil telling us that he will be much stronger, will settle better and able to go further, which was the aim I understood, and the impression I think we were given to believe.
It’s a long time coming and I think it’s a bit of a shame that if this horse does possess such capabilities as so many people are telling us he does, that he hasn’t been allowed to demonstrate it as yet, beyond a mile, and I repeat I refute absolutely any suggestion of malice in my reasonings, that claim is unwarranted and quite unfair Hammy.Twice Over ran a great race on July 7th. Could Frankel not have done better? Yet on Aug 22nd this is supposed to be the case. Which summer race has the greater standing, the Eclipse or Juddmonte…? Which race is harder to win…?
I’ve no idea what you are driving at tbh UM. Are you saying the horse is disappointing then simply because it hasn’t run enough times?
As for the 10 furlongs. The fact that Sir Henry hasn’t run him already over the trip is the biggest clue IMO. He clearly isn’t completely confident of the horse getting the mile and a quarter. Why on earth would he have kept the horse in training if he didn’t want us to see him run? As an onlooker I don’t think it is too difficult to see why he is reticent about the horse running over the extra distance.
As for your refuting any element of malice I’m sorry, but I’ve read your posts. Your tone has been sneering. At least that’s how it comes across to me. A comment along the lines of ‘Couldn’t even get past a handicapper’ recently, in the tone it was delivered is for my money born of some notion of contempt for the horse. I read it as unnecessarily malicious.
Hammy you are emotionally tied to this horse.That is not good.he is just a horse;four legs,two ears a tail,so he can run as fast as the wind that is good but they are all there to be beaten and it will happen soon enough.Unless they(connections go into hiding)leave the scene without taking on the big challenges.Even Zenyatta went for the BC a second time and she was then beaten.Cigar was finally beaten. Then they retired him.That is the way sportsmen do it.
So we have a race with almost £17k fourth place prize money and most trainers don’t seem interested at having a go at it, obviously the ranks of flat trainers are incredibly flush at the moment.
I really hope those very same trainers will not be whinging about low prize money at other tracks and be planning boycotts.
Don’t mean to single you out Paul, there’s more than you thinking the same way but lets get real here.
Take for example Andrew Blading’s Side Glance who could have run here. The trainer unsure of which horses would turn up decided he had abetter chance in a Group 2 worth 56k to the winner he needed up taking home 10K. If another couple of good horses had run here he could well have gone home with nothing.
There was nothing stopping Roger Varian running here but he also went to York and won. A sensible decision was it not?
Aiden is sick of chasing Frankel’s tail and he now is thinking his Excelebration’s stud future would be better served by taking a couple of top sprints.
To really make it worth a trainers time he would have to have a miler in the same class as him or Farhh, they don’t grow on trees and taking him on there’s no guarantee you would finish second. It costs a lot of money to enter and run in this so is stupid sending a real no hoper ueless you have a crystal ball and know nothing else will run
The point is there are lots of options for trainers and getting your ar$e kicked by Frankel and Farhh is way down the list. Especially if you have a horse good enough to win a good Group 2 which adds more shed value to your charge than finishing a remote 3rd of 4 to Frankel.
Some of us older fella’s saw this happen before in Arkle’s Cheltenham Gold cups and many of his other races.
That is the price you pay when a real champion comes along and moaning about it is a waste of time when you can simply enjoy the moment…..A phenomenon like Frankel is something we are highly unlikely to see again in our lifetimes.
Hammy you are emotionally tied to this horse.That is not good.he is just a horse;four legs,two ears a tail,so he can run as fast as the wind that is good but they are all there to be beaten and it will happen soon enough.Unless they(connections go into hiding)leave the scene without taking on the big challenges.Even Zenyatta went for the BC a second time and she was then beaten.Cigar was finally beaten. Then they retired him.That is the way sportsmen do it.
This gone into hiding is a crock of sh!t Andy. Sir Henry has entered him in every 1 mile race possible and won them all.
When Sea The Stars was winning everything going Aiden sent 3 horses who were already beaten to take him on at trips that never suited him but I don’t see the unbeaten Camelot in the field today.
It is the duty of the trainer to do his best to win every race he can for the owner. Sir Henry has done a fantastic job winning 11 consecutive races rocketing Frankel to the highest rated horse of all time.
Had Sir Henry run Frankel over 10 or 12 furlongs furlong last season or early this season the chances are, however unlikely, he could have lost.
The Sussex was always the plan and the big challenge is there……take on Frankel!! they don’t come bigger than that.
So where are the Stoute’s, O’Brien’s Goseden’s etc? They are the one’s who are shirking the challenge.
Frankel has been so explosive over a mile that 12 furlongs would be a crazy move unless of course you are suicidal and just want to see him lose. He might stay but who in their right mind would gamble on a horse so fast at a mile staying 1/2 as far again?
If and when he does step up it will be to 10 furlongs but what do you expect will happen?…..Right now for some reason unknown to me City Style is 2nd favourite for the Juddmonte. I can only assume Nathaniel wont be running which means if Frankel run does he can walk for the first 6 furlong and canter the rest of the way.
The Champion Stakes is definitely not on the cards for Camelot if he wins the St leger, Nathaniel will most likely go for the Arc and if Frankel wins the Judmonte easily you can bet Cirrus Des Aigles will miss the Champion and head to Ireland in September.
So unless you think Sir Henry is a complete fool and should run Frankel in the Arc or ship him off to the USA and miss out winning the Champion Stakes there are no big challenges out there.
Hammy you are emotionally tied to this horse.That is not good.he is just a horse;four legs,two ears a tail,so he can run as fast as the wind that is good but they are all there to be beaten and it will happen soon enough.Unless they(connections go into hiding)leave the scene without taking on the big challenges.Even Zenyatta went for the BC a second time and she was then beaten.Cigar was finally beaten. Then they retired him.That is the way sportsmen do it.
You are a classic Andy! You have a go at poor old Hammy for being emotionally tied but what do you say about STS just one post before this one? Something about loving and admiring him?!!!
And why the feck not!!! I hope the vast majority of posters on here DO love their horses! I know I do. Although admittedly my love for Frankel has now become unhealthy!
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
I’ve no idea what you are driving at tbh UM. Are you saying the horse is disappointing then simply because it hasn’t run enough times?
As for the 10 furlongs. The fact that Sir Henry hasn’t run him already over the trip is the biggest clue IMO. He clearly isn’t completely confident of the horse getting the mile and a quarter. Why on earth would he have kept the horse in training if he didn’t want us to see him run? As an onlooker I don’t think it is too difficult to see why he is reticent about the horse running over the extra distance.
…that’s exactly what I’ve been saying too, if you care to read.
As for your refuting any element of malice I’m sorry, but I’ve read your posts. Your tone has been sneering. At least that’s how it comes across to me. A comment along the lines of ‘Couldn’t even get past a handicapper’ recently, in the tone it was delivered is for my money born of some notion of contempt for the horse. I read it as unnecessarily malicious.
…then you are wrong!
and I very much take exception to that. We shall not converse again on the subject.
yes it can be argued any horse can enter the sussex other than frankel, but thats not always the case. whats frankel got left to achieve at a mile? fair enough it will be the first horse to win the race twice, but thats absurd.
ill never be able to take frankel seriously unless it runs over further. andyods comment on the galileo breeding etc sums it up perfectly.
…fair comments and I agree with some of that, although we cannot not take Frankel seriously…
The general consensus after the Queen Anne seems to be one that we would now like to see him over further – even Sheikh Mohammed voiced that opinion when interviewed after the race, yet those of us who do so on internet forums seem to be singled out as some kind of pariahs, it’s almost perverse. So far, you appear to have avoided this retribution
Yet all we want to see is the horse tested to his fullest perceived abilities. In Frankel’s case it can only be distance that could put him to this test.
Why dont we just enjoy what we have now and embrace the moment…….you wouldnt ask Usain Bolt to run over 1500 metres would you. Such is the speed that Frankel has there would be a doubt in my mind that he would be as an impressive specimen over a longer trip (although a well imformed friend of mine reckons he would be even more impressive).Im pretty sure in 20 years time we will be revering Frankel as one of the mile greats
He’s already one of the greatest ever, just that today though he will rack up another G1 win it’s not a race, just a demonstration gallop for 180k.
Yeah, it’s not their fault the others aren’t turning up but the forum opinion towards BC was to knock what she faced rather than use the same argument – it wasn’t her fault what turned up – at least she travelled the world and ran when not right and stayed in racing longer – they’re both great horses.
Pointless race today though it will be publicity, can’t blame them for wanting to be the first horse to win it twice and put the owner joint top of wins for the race.
Fingers crossed nothing untoward happens, wonder how it will compete with the Olympics in the news now we are in the gold?
While it is always great to see Frankel race and I had the privilege to do so at Newbury in the Lockinge the Sussex is pointless. There isn’t a 3yo miler of any note in the country and he’s already slaughtered the older milers so I can’t see why Abdullah & Cecil bothered entering him in this, they should have stepped him up to 10f in the Eclipse.
As for the opposition not turning up you can’t blame Frankel’s connections and it is a bit rich when owners/trainers complain about prize money when fifth place today has a prize of £8,500 and is uncontested.
…
Fingers crossed nothing untoward happens, wonder how it will compete with the Olympics in the news now we are in the gold?I doubt that it will, most people are well into the Olympics by now and unfortunately, and this is one of the biggest losses to the sport I think, Frankel isn’t particuarly well known outside of racing and for Robin Oakley to go on Atr today apparently claiming otherwise, I found a little absurd, comparing his receptions with the better races at Cheltenham. I don’t see that.
Has Mr Oakley been racing anywhere else in the world? not seen how the Japanese and Americans cheer theirs home? I don’t think this compares really.
Goodwood is a tricky course and I think if I owned a horse I would be worried about it running there, as we have just seen in the Goodwood H’cap. I always get nervous about that bend into the straight too.
edit: terribly sad about that horse
– I always feel so sorry.Why dont we just enjoy what we have now and embrace the moment…….you wouldnt ask Usain Bolt to run over 1500 metres would you.
….a tiresome analogy that keep’s being churned out for some reason. We are only hoping he goes up another 2f, that’s a quarter extra from what he usually races over. I’m sure Bolt could manage 125 metres or is that asking too much..?
….a tiresome analogy that keep’s being churned out for some reason. We are only hoping he goes up another 2f, that’s a quarter extra from what he usually races over. I’m sure Bolt could manage 125 metres or is that asking too much..?
A tiresome and incorrect analogy indeed. Comparing Bolt/Frankel doesn’t work for many reasons.
However, asking Bolt to do an extra 125 metres is asking alot. If you have any understand of how athletes like him train, then asking him to train for 400M along with 100M/200M …. well it’s rather insane. Such a training programme isn’t done, because it will not work. A vast difference between 100M and 400M and you can’t do all 3 events.
Of course, the anaology is in keeping with the regular nonsense in this thread.
Both sides of the debate are pissing against the wind. The he should be running at 10f and the he should run over a mile are over looking the fact that he will be running over 10f anyway. The issue isn’t the distance, it’s about the timing of upping him in trip. This is the last time he will run at a mile in my opinion, so it’s a dissapointing turn out. I’d imagine todays race is part of a pre-arranged programme that is scheduled to take place on the remit he pleases in each of his races, which he clearly has. Todays race is a day out. The be-grudgers should wait until the Juddmonte and Champion Stakes.
– I always feel so sorry.
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