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Just because it has never happened before Ardross, doesn’t mean that it won’t one day, as unlikely as that might seem.:)
I think there might be options for Rooster if Hobbs looks hard enough. Would be unfortunate if these were really distress signals. He has already said that he wouldn’t want to take on Baracouda at 2½ miles.<br> ÂÂÂ
(Edited by Steve M at 2:40 pm on Dec. 5, 2003)
..well now that’s fair enough. After all there is every chance that I could be wrong.
Why base your criticism of Back In Front on form which is not relevant then Grasshopper?
I do wonder at how touchy people can get when the obvious is pointed out to them.
It is unlikely, as I have said, that Baracouda will run in the Champion Hurdle, but not beyond the realms of possibility. After all they gave the race serious consideration last season before opting for the Stayers.
I was simply speculating on a scenario in which Baracouda came up against Rooster in the Champion. Such speculation forms ante-post markets. In this circumstance I would be eager to back Baracouda to come out on top.
Now what was your point again, Grasshopper? <br>
(Edited by Steve M at 4:57 pm on Dec. 4, 2003)
One of the tricks of this game Grasshopper, is knowing which form to ignore. Intersky’s beating of BiF is not form that has any bearing on the Champion Hurdle. BiF is considerably better than that.
I have a lot of respect for Rooster Booster. Maurice put him up for the Champion long before most of us thought he was entitled to be entered for the race. However, I believe he is vulnerable this season and if Baracouda doesn’t turn up (I’ve not given up yet Ardross), Back In Front seems to me to have the right stuff and the right profile for a Champion Hurdle winner.
I get the feeling Rooster has had his moment in the sun, whether Baracouda turns up to demolish him or not.
I suspect that Back In Front has a great deal more ability than people give him credit for. (And if you remember Mo, I said the same about a certain Strong Flow before the Hennessy.)<br>
It seems a forlorn hope, but I still haven’t given up on Baracouda switching to Tuesday’s two-miler.
The Champion would actually bring out the best in him in my opinion. He can go any pace and has greater reserves of energy than anything I have seen.
I take my hat off to Postmark if they have already rated him for the Sussex, as they have not run the race yet.
It is true that on Post mark ratings ROG managed 123 for the Guineas and 126 for the St James’s Palace. Other rating don’t show an improvement from the Guineas to the St James’s Palace.
However, for the Guineas Hawk Wing achieved 125 by the same rater and 127+ for the Eclipse, which some have said on here was not impressive. as Hawk Wing seems certain to improve for dropping back rather than stepping up, I am confident he is capable of running to 130+ at a mile, a figure that Postmark said he was capable of immediately after the Guineas.<br>
Hawk Wing is rated above ROG on his Guineas run by Postmark, Timeform and the Official handicapper and ROG has not improved in his Irish or Ascot performances.
I realise it may be difficult for some people to accept as ROG has actually beaten him (twice), but that’s how things stand.
And I really don’t want to sound patronising in saying that to anyone with an eye it should be obvious what the sectional times and ratings are telling us.
But if you have another opinion fine, just don’t assume that anyone with an alternative view has been seduced by hype if it differs from your own.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating. It will be that pudding rather than my words that I shall be feasting on next time he appears.<br>
I’ve said all I’m going to say. Now to return to that "filfilled-hype party"? whatever that might mean.
I still fail to see how the best horse in training at 8-10f (on what he has already achieved) can be hyped, however.
AOB has talked a lot of nonsense about the horse in relation to his stamina potential. Doing a U-turn on earmarking him for the St Leger as the culmination of a triple crown bid, to eyeing him for the July Cup!
Most of as have known for some months that his stamina range is 8-10f and that is the range in which he will record his best performances.
However, in terms of absolute ability I don’t see how it is possible to hype him, unless O’Brien has been talking about him walking across the Irish Sea next time.<br>
You see I don’t believe the quality of this horse is hype Escorial and I certainly haven’t been taken in by it. I have the evidence of my own eyes.
When he won the National Stakes I knew I had seen one of the very best performances from a 2-y-o in my lifetime. Every bit as good as Mill Reef or Arazi or Hector Protector or Fasliyev. He remains a thrilling horse of seemingly unlimited potential.
His Guineas performance was exilerating and so far in excess of what ROG would have been able to achieve if the stall positions had been reversed it isn’t worth talking about.
I’m just sorry you can’t see it.
Fair enough rob. It’s your loss. I think there’s a good chance he will prove better than any of those you have mentioned, and I find that very exciting.
Most of us can tell who’s decent after they have done it, it takes rather more ability to spot it before they have.
All I can say rob is that you are difficult to please. Hopefully he will get his chance to impress you at some stage later this season.
What more were you expecting rob? He is virtually the top rated 3-y-o in training and unlike his cotemporaries has beaten the older horses in a Group 1 (when the Eclipse is a graveyard for 3-y-os). And he will go on from here. If this is not living up to the hype what is?
I couldn’t agree more MH. Dancing Brave and El Gran Senor are very comparable horses to Hawk Wing.<br>
Put it this way Escorial. I had grave doubts about his readiness to run in the Eclipse and could not back him although I refused to back against him.
As doubtful as I was about the Eclipse, I am absolutely confident he will beat any horse in the world if reappearing at 8-10f on good ground next time out. What he did in the Eclipse was extraordinary given the ordeal he was forced to experience in the Derby.<br>
The official view from today’s Post:
HAWK WING fell just short of his best performance to date in winning the Coral Eurobet Eclipse Stakes at Sandown on Saturday, according to the official handicapper. <br> <br> The Aidan O’Brien trained colt had a rating of 123 going into the race and in defeating stablemate Sholokhov by two and a half lengths he achieved a mark of 122+. <br> <br> Senior BHB handicapper Nigel Gray measured the display superior to that of Medicean a year ago but there is still ground to make up on previous Aidan O’Brien-trained winner Giant’s Causeway. <br> <br> “With Indian Creek failing to fire and not reproducing his run behind Grandera at Ascot, Hawk Wing had 8lb in hand of his rivals, the next highest rated horse being Sholokhov,â€ÂÂ
I am only using Postmark figures to be consistent as they are the only ones I have to hand in all respects for all of the horses.
The official picture is virtually identical albeit at a slightly lower level for everyone. The only difference being that HW has been given 122+ for the Eclipse against 123 for the Derby, whereas Postmark makes him 1lb higher for the Eclipse vs. the Derby. Although it is debatable whether a 122+ is actually superior to a 123.
Of course the verdict at the end of the season will be on Official ratings (although Timeform is often recognised as being an even more accurate indication).
As you are so sceptical of Hawk Wing’s chances you will no doubt want to snap up the evens I’ll give you against either of the other two beating him.
Since it is beholden on Hawk Wing to put up a performance better than anything seen by anything so far this season to achieve this you may well feel this is the bet of the season. It is one you will lose nevertheless.
Fair enough if you disagree with them rob. But that’s what they are nevertheless.
Personally I agree with the assertion that HW has a clear edge over ROG and if they ran tomorrow at 8-10f on good ground you could have what you like with me on ROG.<br>
(Edited by Steve M at 1:35 pm on July 9, 2002)
