July 6, 2002 at 16:25 #4204Steve MMember
- Total Posts 99
Given my doubts about his readiness for this I have to be delighted with that. He is now a Group 1 winner at two and three and a runner up in two Classics.
He picked them up easily but had to be ridden to go past them. He has won well enough if less brilliantly than three-year olds Nashwan and Dancing Brave. I still believe he will prove the equal of those two especially on faster ground at 8-9 furlongs. He didnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t win quite as brilliantly as I feel he could of and while I believe the Derby has had an effect on him, I think we have to say now that it is a marginal one. Physically he looked fantastic and it is a credit to Aidan OÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢Brien that he has got him back so soon in such condition. Everyone is entitled to make mistake ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I feel they were unlucky with him in the Guineas and made a mistake in the Derby. Ballydoyle have corrected that mistake today.
I have no doubt that this horse is superior in absolute terms than Rock of Gibraltar and High Chapperal. I believe he will prove this to be the case before the end of the season.
I would love him to take on ROG again and prove himself a Champion mile + performer.<br>July 6, 2002 at 16:34 #99803
I’m glad to see Hawk Wing get a deserved Group One victory at 3 and now he can go on and take on some better horses. Plus the ground was not his most ideal and Sholokov ran another cracker to finish second – he deserves a rest at least!
But Hawk Wing was far from impressive and to be honest I’ve never watched such a boring Group One (not since the 1999 QEII anyway). He beat nothing and I expected HW to quicken better but he will be better over a mile on faster ground.
Sholokov won a weak Group One so in a G2 he would win so he’s not quite a Group One horse. Equerry might want further and could be better on softer ground etc but it’s clear he’s not G1 level at the moment. The other two ran to their ability.
Hawk Wing has beaten nothing today and if I were Sakhee or Grandera I wouldn’t be scared of him over 1m2f. Bring him back to a mile Aidan so we can see him burn the milers up. Breeder’s Cup Mile – not Classic, for HW if all stays well.July 6, 2002 at 16:47 #99804
Pretty much agree with everything said. Looking at this horse standing still let alone galloping gets me so excited. He is just such a magnificent specimen it’s amazing he was relatively cheap buy compared to some of his stablemates. His cruising speed is quite frightening to watch. I suspect his sectionals will be very good………..it looked to me that the place to be was up front. Thought they went a decent gallop but nothing to strenuous so the closer you were to the pace the better. Taking that into account as well as the tacky ground it was a very satisfactory performance.What a training performance by O’Brien to get HW in such good shape but even more remarkably to have been able to get Sholokov back after 6 days in such good shape.<br> While the ground I am sure had some effect on him Indian Creek hardly boosted Grandera’s form while Sakhee still has to come back and prove he is back to his best.One thing to note it is quite encouraging to see the two 3 year olds come first and second in the Eclipse. OK the older horses were not great but it does give a good omen for the future clashes of the generation.<br> In the long term cant help but think HW is made for the Breeder’s Cup Classic. By Woodman,loves a fast surface and most importantly his early pace will be a huge asset on the dirt. But there is a long way to go before then.<br>July 6, 2002 at 17:09 #99807
If this arguement of wait for age comes up again this year I think I’ll be pulling my hair out!!!! Weight does’nt and should’nt come into it!!!<br> Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â But if were going to take a literal read of the form book if Hawk Wing had of ran in the Prince Of Wales Stakes he would have beat Grandera by a few lenghts. That is how blindly reading the form book would tell you……….I read that through Indian Lodge.Presumably you agree Escorial?I also hope you did’nt invest into your theory that Hawk Wing would’nt win a Group1 this year…………..
(Edited by Aidan at 6:12 pm on July 6, 2002)July 6, 2002 at 17:12 #99809prince regentMember
- Total Posts 221
personally i would Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â like to see him remain at 10f Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â the judmonte/irish champion stakes Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â as possible targets Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â and then a tilt at the bc classic Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â as woodmans go well on the dirt in general Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â and his cruising speed would eb an asset there.
on ground that wasnt ideal for hw i thought it was a fair performence indian creek whilst not being amongst the top horses is rated 114 and got closer to nayef in the champion takes on similar ground (4.75l) than he has to hw and also he was closer to grandera allthough it is not to wise to take the line seriously i wouldnt on the other hand use him to devalue hawk wings performence today
Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â i do hope as aob mentioned 12f again in the after race interview Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â they do not try this route again
(Edited by prince regent at 6:20 pm on July 6, 2002)July 6, 2002 at 17:21 #99812remittance manMember
- Total Posts 63
On quicker ground he might have picked up more readily so I wouldn’t be too harsh on him. I’m not sure I’m any wiser though. The real tests are yet to come.
I’m pleased he’s done it and hope he goes on to better things. I have him at 12/1 for the BC Classic but on what I’ve seen so far Street Cry is the best European for that contest.<br>July 6, 2002 at 17:23 #99813
I agree RM.
I’m sick of reading that this is "Hawk Wing’s first Group One success." (BBC website, teletext).
Have they heard of the National Stakes? Well, I bet the BBC haven’t.July 6, 2002 at 17:33 #99816tootingMember
- Total Posts 379
Personally, I’m pretty happy with that 12/1 rm…July 6, 2002 at 17:44 #99818thebairnMember
- Total Posts 72
Nice one Esc!
Hawk Wing proved absolutely squat today. The ground was tacky and that certainly inconvenienced Indian Creek – apart from that he beat his pacemaker, a handicapper and a frail mudlark. Oh, and the time of the race was a whole 1.5 seconds quicker than Football Crazy put up in the 0-85 handicap – big deal!
Hawk Wing is undoubtably better than this, and certainly looks the part, but I will be looking to oppose him whenever (if?) he meets decent oppostion in the future. He’s now had 3 chances to prove his greatness and I am still not convinced – hopefully I’ll be proved wrong!July 6, 2002 at 18:32 #99819
I certainly would’nt use today’s race as a brilliant win but it had so much potenial for the horse. Any horse that travels that well in a race is something special,he had them covered from the turn in. The acceleration that was present on good to firm ground in the National Stakes and in the Guineas was not present today due to the ground. If people want to oppose the horse in the future fine but trust me on good to firm ground from a mile to a 1m2f he will leave anything and everything for dead.July 6, 2002 at 19:06 #99820
I can guarantee you HW would win every single time and each time Kinane would have choosen HW…………so now your trying to tell me Hawk Wing is a Group3 horse?<br> To my eyes HW did blow them away………..Kinane just had to shake him up on the tacky ground. Did’nt hit him once with the whip. Never for a second did he ever look like not winning and winning well.<br> As I said earlier the leaders did not go off fast at all. They had an easy lead so Hawk Wing did remarkably well to close on them so easily.Hence the slow time.Some seem not to notice that Sholokov was rated 112 as a juvenile so he aint just your "average" pacemaker.<br> Grandera is a different horse on fast ground and come the day Hawk Wing gets his ground then you’ll see a different horse too.July 6, 2002 at 19:53 #99821
Well I can say Escorial has some very sound points. I believe Hawk Wing is not a wonder horse and even if he wins another G1 this year he’ll be packed off to stud after the BC. A lot of wonder horses can be seen after 3 as well.
If he was the Pegasus everyone was making him out to be he would have won by 6L onwards today.
He had his easiest task yet and will probably prove to be his easiest task in his career. When he was on the bridle I expected him to blow ’em away. The Rock is better for me, he’s beaten a Guineas field, and at Ascot a French Gins 1st and 3rd.
Either way, this year’s 3yos (colts) are a mediocre if not deplorable bunch. You can’t say the 3yos are going to beat the older bunch this season – I can’t see it being a trend anyway. The older lot today were G3! I think the fillies are more interesting: Kazzia on for the Triple Crown, Gossamer awesome on soft ground, and Mellow Park regained her form today. And of course, let’s hope Queen’s Logic can return and win soon…!July 6, 2002 at 19:55 #99822
Certainly phyiscally Hawk Wing hardly looked as though he had regressed.ROG win in the Irish 2000 was nowhere near as good as his English win in the Guineas but that did’nt mean he had regressed.<br> O’Brien stated they hav’nt done much with him at home since the Derby but before and after the Guineas he has done plenty of serious work.You state he should turn up and do the business………well in fairness he was only beaten a head in the Guineas despite the poor draw,outstayed in soft ground in the Derby and today he did do the business.<br> You read much to much into Kinane’s use of the whip. HW does’nt compare to Quarter Moon in terms of quirkiness. Spencer used the whip on him in the Guineas and it had the desired effect.Did he not run genuinely then???<br> I dont believe they are going back to a mile with the horse Escorial……….connections pointed to the International at York as very likely.July 6, 2002 at 20:19 #99823STE601Member
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Well done to Ballydoyle for yet another brilliant win from an outstanding horse , we realy should count ourselves lucky to be watching so many great horses from coolmore to godolphin and appreciate what these people have done for this sport over the years.July 6, 2002 at 20:20 #99824remittance manMember
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Esc, I took that 12/1 quite a long time ago – soon after Coral opened a book. I don’t know what he’s available at now since I don’t see many firms offering a market – although I read he’d be around the 15/1 mark in the US version of ante-post betting which opened earlier this week.
Apart from the "promise" of his Guineas run and the fact that Tiznow had retired, I took into account a couple of factors before taking the price.
Firstly, I reckoned he should act on the dirt and get the 10f trip (yes, it’s possible he may be best over a mile). Secondly and more importantly, the fact that Coolmore make it their business to target the Breeders’ Cup. Although things can change a lot before October, for the moment I’d still expect HW to be aimed at the Classic.
Much depends on how well/if he progresses. If he progresses well enough to justify a crack at the Classic, the only way he’ll be bigger than 12/1 is on the US pari-mutuel.
I’ve already said I think Street Cry is the one to beat amongst the Europeans. But I’m happy with the thought processes that went into the bet.<br>
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