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To say he bounced is a bit ridiculous, he didn’t run a little flat, he was slow from the off and was being passed at half way by horses he could normally put half a furlong on, even with Morgiana form.
Something was amiss, injury, illness or an extremely bad day, too early to say.
Would’ve needed a good clear season to be close to Buveur d’Air’s price in March, fingers crossed he makes the race, don’t fancy him coming back for 2019.
Each to their own, but for me Cue Card is popular way beyond his actual achievements. One King George and zero Gold Cups is hardly the stuff of legend. He is perhaps the equine equivalent of Jimmy White in an era where the media are desperate to create another “People’s Champion”
I think that’s true, but popularity isn’t always born out of achievement. Lionel Messi isn’t automatically overrated because he’s never won the world cup, that’s a bit OTT, but you get the point!
You can make all sorts of excuses for horses, but he’s not had the most straight forward of paths. Pushed away from two mile chasing by one of the best national hunt horse of all time in Sprinter Sacre, the old problem of no championship races around his natural distance, so Gold Cup it is, and as a 9,10 and 11 year old, is ‘injured’ and fell the only two times in his career, one time when he looked favourite to win and take the £1m bonus.
I certainly agree he doesn’t look his best and deserves to be retired now and really hope he is, but having said that, I really rate his run today and he could very well still win a six figure sum next season, so why rule it out? Today he ran through the line and finished the stronger. With age he’s looking like he increasingly needs softer ground, which he only got twice this year and won on both occasions by 15 lengths, all other runs were on good ground.
I think it’s a hugely important factor, but as said above, completely dependant on the horse. Certainly don’t neglect it, but look at what the horse has done previously after a break or quick turn around, rather than looking for the “perfect” time off.
I would be very reluctant to back a horse in it’s first start of a season without it having run well in similar circumstances before, likewise if it’s only had a short time off. But then there are many other variables such as it’s last race being an 8 minute slog in heavy ground vs a fall at first!
I’ve had the year catch me out a few times on this too. Embarrassingly at the last minute I saw Arctic fire at a huge 25/1 at the festival this year, thought it was a little odd, couldn’t remember him running this season, but a quick check revealed he had run well in January, so bit of money on and easy profit I thought. It was only after he won that I twigged his last run was actually January 2016! Got a bit lucky there, but such a reliable horse and strong weight carrier that he was probably worth backing EW anyway.
Everyone on this forum would prefer there to be 0 deaths of course, no one ‘doesn’t care’ about the horses. Everything below is probably in part me making myself feel better about a sport I love, but nevertheless, I think valid.
If statistics is what you want, then here you are…
– 15,000 horses may be exported each year, but that many cattle in the UK are killed for meat every 2 days (2,600,000 per year).
– In all, more than 1,000,000,000 animals are slaughtered in the UK each year, 15,000 every 8 minutes.
– Infamously the UK sent 1,000,000 horses to the first world war, close to 10,000,000 horses in total were killed in the war.
– If racing were banned, all the horses, successful and unsuccessful would never even have been born.
I’d rather lead a racehorse’s life and at least have a bit of time out in the paddock and a chance, than be a meat animal.
Racehorses are essentially guaranteed good quality food, water and bedding, and if they do end up needing to be dispatched, that has to done so humanely. Wild horses, if they make it through their first year (that’s probably a 50/50), face a far harder life with threat from the elements and predators. Nearly all wild animals will be killed or die from disease or injury, very rarely quickly. Horses are naturally heavy animals with thin athletic legs and large internal organs, that makes them more susceptible to injury and death regardless of whether they are bred and raised for racing.
Now none of that justifies careless or unnecessary deaths in racing, and everything should be done to reduce suffering, indeed far more should be done. Luckily unhappy horses are bad PR, and if everyone in racing wants it to thrive and be a lucrative business, they generally have to work towards better treatment.
To stop the death and suffering of all animals, we need to wipe them all out. Now that’s crap for obvious reasons, so I’d rather encourage the industry to continue increasing the welfare of racehorses and see those 15,000 horses at least get a chance of a good life, than see empty paddocks and racetracks. Even the unsuccessful racehorses lead longer and happier lives than the average wild horse.
Have always wanted a “where are they now” kind of thread.
I’d agree with Ricco, I’m sure it would be a popular thread.
You should start one. If you’d rather not, I’d be more than happy to
Be my guest, you’re more of a regular than myself after all!
For anyone who is interested I managed to trawl through twitter and find that Little King Robin has indeed had a foal by Shirocco in 2015, no updates beyond that, perhaps retired a bit early, but she was hard raced, I think she could have been a fine mare in the right hands, c’est la vie.
Have always wanted a “where are they now” kind of thread.
2 horses who have vanished and I never heard about, or can find any news of, were Trifolium, who presumably was retired due to injury, hopefully nothing worse, and Little King Robin, who is hopefully popping out future champions, a mare I fancied as being half handy, beat Artic Fire and others in a decent race, but seemed to be over-raced and ruined. Both last raced when they were 7, but no news stories about them anywhere?!
TNO wouldn’t have won regardless, they were going a comfortable gallop when he was hampered, he moved back in to position on the tail of MTOY and then had a good 40 seconds for a breather before they quickened.
At the third last he was 2-3 lengths from the lead, which quickly became 6-7 by the next and that didn’t change until the others started to weaken at the end. If that’s not being outpaced, or at very least slow to get going, I don’t know what is, you could see how he stayed on at the end that he wouldn’t have been tired when they quickened, he had plenty left.
There will be a good battle for second that I could see TNO winning if there is a little bit of give in the ground, but Faugheen could very well be 10lbs better than the rest and I look forward to finding out!
Douvan looks like a future gold cup horse or something, big effortless horse, but whether he’ll be sharp enough to win a 2m race on quicker ground I’m not so sure, I don’t think I’ll be backing him.
I was impressed when I first saw LS, but will have to watch the races again.
Is the Arkle his barring a fall?
Absolutely, next in the market is Josses Hill and I can’t see him touching UDS. I believe the only horse that could actually give him a race is Ptit Zig and particularly after that he looks to be JLT bound.
If you look at it that way, evens is still probably a good price, he jumps so well and that was a much more mature performance.
Was really umming and ahhing whether to take 2/1 for UDS for the arkle before that, won’t be getting that now!
EDIT: He’s now odds on with many bookies, that’s gut wrenching, before the race I was thinking I’d still be able to take 6/4 or something if he ran well
At a guess I think it must often come down to the 24 highest rated horses. I suppose there must be a guaranteed place for horses finishing in the first 3 (as there are 8 qualis and 24 spots), but it has to be quite tumultuous with horses being withdrawn and running in other races etc.
For example I know Lie Forrit came 6th or 7th in his qualifier last year, but got a spot in the final, so there’s obviously other criteria to make up the numbers.
I imagine a horse that has run in a qualifier and is rated 140+ is pretty much guaranteed a spot if they wanted one?
I’d have to see Josses Hill over fences again before I’d part with even a penny, certainly not convinced yet, but he’s obviously talented.
I’ve followed UDS very closely, mainly when he was a dark horse for the Champion hurdle, he’d obviously looked pretty spectacular without beating any horses of note.
I don’t know what the ground was officially, but looks pretty good when he ran in Auteuil last March. I have absolutely not doubt, watching the way he runs, that firmer ground would be a problem, he’d probably love it and that’s the danger, he could fly in to the distance and be pulled up exhausted after a mile
Not sure how aware people were of his races in France, but here’s two videos worth watching if you haven’t already and want to back him in the Arkle. Gemix is obviously a very good horse, but Un De Sceaux was saved by the line in the first after going out hard and almost not getting home, believe that was 19f though:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZP2Ehjpihg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaho0JtmAgAAnd these interviews with Geraghty and Walsh after the races shows what we all know, he runs his own pace, and if that’s too fast in the Arkle, he can be caught, there will be plenty of unspectacular but good staying horses in the Arkle. The first with Geraghty is worth watching for comedy value!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mrp4A6XmtH0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzFm4eyegvEOn another note, if I owned Ptit Zig, I’d be very tempted to run him in the Arkle, I think there’s more questions over UDS and the rest of that bunch than Vautour and the JLT lot. He’s looked very nice this season, really come on over fences.
Un De Sceaux only fell because he’s a headcase, he’s jumped fences very well otherwise. They’ll obviously be forced to go a crazy clip with him in the race, really can’t see Josses Hill jumping well enough, he’s not looked comfortable, will he jump better in a quicker race on better ground with more adrenaline??
Yeah I do completely agree, Somersby, while still capable is obviously on his way down, and Twinlight I’ve never rated. I guess I was trying to redress the balance from those who think Sprinter Sacre is finished, I don’t think that’s quite the case, he did better than I expected and I think come March he could surprise those people a tad.
I’m with you about Sire De Grugy, without the injury I’d have my house on him, but you just never know how horses are going to be coming back, though I’m still sure he’s where the smart money is going, do you take the 3/1 now or the risk that he might get cut to near evens after the game spirit next month?
Dodging Bullets has surprised me this season, it’s not so much what he’s beat, but the manner. I’ve never rated him, always thought he was just going to be a stayed on one pace kind of horse at a decent level, but he looked really keen at the end of these 2 races in testing ground and I was impressed enough in the Clarence House to back him yesterday after being a big critic of his last year. He looks strong now, whether he has a good enough finish on better ground remains to be seen.
Ah yes, the Neptune indeed, Vautour clearly on the mind today!
I don’t think the handicappers will compare Bertimont to TNO too much, he just jumped so atrociously and wasn’t enjoying himself out there.
There were some poor horses in the field on the same weight who weren’t a million miles away at the finish, so I don’t think they’ll be too cruel to Bertimont, a few pounds maybe?
Agree with TNO’s turn of foot, it’s always baffled me when TNO is talked about as a speed machine and Faugheen’s top speed has been constantly questioned, perhaps that’s because he’s got no other obvious weaknesses to discuss or query and because he’s been run over 3 miles they assume his speed mustn’t be his strong suit.
All being fit, I see the champion going much like the supreme last year, Faugheen to outpace them turning in to the straight and to go half a dozen lengths clear, he’ll likely come back to them and get that cut in half to about 3 or 4 lengths at the finish, but he really doesn’t look like a horse to fade for me, the real battle will be for second between Jezki and TNO I feel. Jezki does seem to be overlooked like he was last year, not least by me, so I think he’s a good price, but can’t see a repeat happening?
HF, who knows, I’d love to see him there or there abouts at the finish, but unless something crazy happens with the weather, it must be too sharp for him again.
Did anyone really expect any better from Sprinter? It’s pretty obvious a horse isn’t going to ever really get completely back to their best at that age and after such a length of time out, but I thought he looked great and much better than I thought he would.
This was his first run in so long and on testing ground, take out DB and he’s just beaten Twinlight and Somersby by 5 and 12 lengths respectively, that’s incredible I’d say, two horses rated in the 160s, both with 3 runs under their belts. Now he’s had that run and will be on better ground in March I was surprised to see such a knee jerk from the bookies pushing him out beyond 3/1, should’ve lapped that up while I could!
Everyone is ignoring DB, he’s fit as a fiddle at the moment and apparently a different horse this season, give him credit I’d say.
I think the Queen Mother has potential to be a great race this year, all signs point to Sire De Grugy coming back well from injury, but with him and Sprinter probably not quite at their best, that really brings the likes of DB in to the race, I’d love to see Al Ferof (won’t happen) and Champagne Fever brought in to the race too. CF didn’t get home over 3 miles and has beaten DB both times at Cheltenham. And why they’ve stuck with longer distances with Al Ferof has always baffled me slightly. I think the 5 of them could finish within half a dozen lengths.
