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Maxilon 5 wrote
I firmly believe that there is a strong correlation between perception of the alleged corruption within horse racing and self hatred.
I was amazed reading that statement. Are you a psychiatrist? Can you direct me towards any diagnostic evaluation done on this? It would be a fascinating read.
cormack15 wrote
I DO think there is an integrity issue in racing, we’d all surely recognise and be naive not to accept that, and I think that TRF is an arena where that aspect of the sport should be discussed openly and frankly.
However, I DON’T think we need a separate thread every time a gamble goes in (unless, like the Am I Blue case, it clearly impacts the wider discussion).
Thank you.
Gingertipster
05 Sep 2010 22:22
by Gingertipster on 05 Sep 2010 22:22Nor1 wrote:
Ex-Timeform Jim McGrath, Dave Nevison, our own Alan Potts, they’ve never been trainers or jockeys yet know their horses.It’s not so much a question of knowing their horses, Gingertipster, just knowing who trains them and how; who rides them; what instructions they’ve been given and by whom. That’s why I think it helps knowing what goes on in the racing industry if you have been a jockey or trainer.
You think Jim, Dave and Alan have that much inside information?
Not sure I understand the question of whether the above have that much inside info.
My point was: unless you have worked in the racing industry as a trainer/jockey it is a little bit difficult to know for certain just what goes on and to what degree. Even trainers can be misled so perhaps it’s the jockey who holds the ace card.Armchair Jockey
Just out of interest, how much contact does the BHA’s handicapper have with trainers
I had no problem, as an owner, speaking to a BHA handicapper a few years ago. Is this still permissible today?.
None the wiser after our long and very interesting conversation analysing the fluctuating handicap ratings of quite a few horses.
I did ask whether there were strict rules and a mathematical formula. It would seem not.Ex-Timeform Jim McGrath, Dave Nevison, our own Alan Potts, they’ve never been trainers or jockeys yet know their horses.
It’s not so much a question of knowing their horses, Gingertipster, just knowing who trains them and how; who rides them; what instructions they’ve been given and by whom. That’s why I think it helps knowing what goes on in the racing industry if you have been a jockey or trainer.
I’ve never been a punter. I like watching a race. If I had a lot of money on one horse I’d be mainly watching that horse instead of the whole picture, and then feel sick if it lost.
It makes my blood boil when it’s suggested that questioning the outcome of some races is because of a lost bet; lack of intelligence; not studying the form…
I hardly bet, and when I do it is just for fun. I enjoy racing but loathe the cheats, and those who support them. I also detest those that try and corrupt others.
So for all those who keep telling the rest of us that there is very little corruption in racing, I have just one question.
How many of you been a jockey or trainer?
Joncol
wrote
Horse racing is a great sport and everyone likes the odd punt but as a betting proposition for me its at the bottom of the list, not because the sport on paper is anyway less appealing than others but moreso because of jockeys/owners/trainers.
Agree. But don’t forget the hidden negotiator, the agent.
Those that have suggested that you are just a wind up, well, they either know all, nothing, or simply don’t care.
Prufrock
wrote
We are capable of exerting control over our destinies – something worth remembering when you next step out into a road as a ten-ton truck comes round the corner – if not of controlling them entirely. The former is the important aspect in this argument.
Not when the ten-ton truck loses control and invades your space on the pavement.
As for the poor bee…
http://www.sustainweb.org/foodfacts/pli … honey_bee/Prufrock
It is the 21st century, we interfere with evolution and modify its consequences all the time. We long since came to the realisation – most of us, at least – that we are capable of controlling our destinies.
I find remarks to the contrary a testament to fatalism rather than experience.
Are we entirely capable of controlling our destinies?
Could remarks to the contrary not be considered realism, rather than fatalism?
Many ’empires’ have declined. Some have done so because of events completely out of their control, others because those in control have been obdurate, stupid, or greedy.I don’t have any sympathy for any trainer whose horse is found to have a banned substance when tested, unless it is a first offence. It is time to make trainers responsible for all what happens including not only the condition of their horses, but the way they are ridden in races.
I feel sorry for the innocent horses.
If trainers, who after all are in charge of these horses, have a prohibited drug administered by person/s supposedly unknown, they should be made responsible and banned for a considerable period, if not for life, unless it is their first offence.thedarkknight
the rather unsavoury backslapping that typically accompanies the classic "duck egg" coups –
These activities are considered very clever by not only the connections, but by the outsiders who have had a successful bet. And they do not consider it really corrupt, not when compared to laying a horse that is prevented from winning.
I feel sorry for the horses, and the jockeys who have to obey instructions if wanting to continue riding.
Some of them leave, unable to stomach it any longer. Others are booted out, either by the BHA, or "insiders" who become suspicious about the jockey’s loyalty, particularly if the jockey has no family connections.
There is little, if any, protection for an honest rider against unscrupulous owners/trainers. Why?If a jockey is riding to instruction not to win, some panick if they think they might and produce an awful ride. They sometimes still win, and then apologise profusely afterwards.
The other scenario is the jockey, deciding he could win the race, when instructed not to, lumps on with friends and family and does just that, wins.
Connections are obviously not happy but excuses are made, "couldn’t hold it, awful race that didn’t pan out, no cover ….".
If this happens too many times, jockey dropped by connections, and amazingly rides dry up completely from other trainers. Career ended without even facing BHA.
Is there a warning system about those that do not obey?Pinza
a quiet ride mid-pack followed by a couple of "attempts" to get through no-existent gaps and early acceptance of the situation would have been a more anonymous way to do it.
With a difficult horse, not easily done, unless you are a very good jockey.
No problem running horses numerous times per season provided they are fit, healthy, and willing to do so. They love racing as much as we enjoy watching them.
What is worrying is when medication is used to alleviate or mask pain/injury enabling the horse to run.
Top class horses are usually rested if suffering an injury. I’m not sure the same could be said about some of the others.Fair enough Cormack. If the reason for the thread’s removal was because it was possibly libelous, you had no alternative.
I know very little about UK’s libel laws apart from them sometimes being used to stop people informing others of the truth.
