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Agree Paul,
It’s human nature for people to try to manipulate the systems to benefit themselves whether it’s for tax or benefit reasons. That is not saying either is right. It’s an acceptance that both behaviours are equally understandable.
Demonizing people claiming benefit whilst ignoring tax avoidance/fraud is really just picking on the low hanging fruit and playing to peoples baser instincts.
The analogy about rape is just silly. I am not defending benefit fraud or any kind of fraud.
"Tax avoidance is fine". A matter of opinion and a fine line between avoidance and fraud. I
"Philip Green is not a non-dom. He lives in the UK. He works in the UK. He pays tax on his salary in the UK. All seems to be in order. Until you realise that Philip Green does not actually own any of the Arcadia group that he spends every day running. Instead, it is in the name of his wife who has not done a single day’s work for the company. Mrs Green lives in Monaco, where she pays not a penny of income tax.
In 2005 Philip Green awarded himself £1.2bn, the biggest paycheck in British corporate history. But this dividend payout was channelled through a network of offshore accounts, via tax havens in Jersey and eventually to Green’s wife’s Monaco bank account. The dodge saved Green, and cost the tax payer, close to £300m. This tax arrangement remains in place. Any time it takes his fancy, Green can pay himself huge sums of money without having to pay any tax."
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-s … ce-network
Tax avoidance costs UK economy £69.9 billion a year
Posted by Mark Jenner – 25 November 2011 09:15
New report from the Tax Justice Network highlights the staggering extent of global tax evasion.Protesting against tax avoidance is about to become a much more mainstream activity. Photo: Getty Images
In March earlier this year The Spectator published an article ‘Debunking UK Uncut’ over their campaign against tax avoidance. The author — Nick Hayns from the Institute for Economic Affairs — pleaded with readers not to let "UK Uncut get away with throwing all logic out of the window." But as nations across Europe feel the sting of reduced living standards, the true extent of global tax avoidance — as revealed today by the Tax Justice Network — will act to bolster feelings that such injustice can no longer be swept aside with the kind of insouciance Hayn displays.
The research, based on data from 145 countries, shows that tax evasion costs those nations $3.1 trillion annually. In the UK’s case £69.9 billion is lost on a yearly basis in what the Tax Justice Network call the "shadow economy." That figure, they point out, "represents 56% of the country’s total healthcare spend."
On the back of this report the Tax Justice Network has launched its campaign to Tackle Tax Havens. An initiative aimed at propelling tax avoidance up the political agenda by highlighting, in simple terms, the sheer scale of the sums involved and how they translate into increased cuts in public services for the rest of us.
But is tax avoidance immoral? Toby Young wrote for The Telegraph back in February that "Tax avoidance isn’t morally wrong. It’s perfectly sensible behaviour." While it might be true from a purely business point of view that tax avoidance is a great way to boost profits, Young conflates what is logical for a business to do, with what is the right thing to do from a societal or moral point of view.
Curiously while parts of the rightwing commentariat insist that deficit reduction is the number one task, they seem little interested in measures that might actually reduce the deficit, namely ensuring companies pay the tax they owe.
"Tax evasion is morally repugnant…It’s stealing from law-abiding people, who face higher taxes to make good the lost revenue." This quote could well come from one of the much derided Occupy LSX group, but no, it’s our very own Conservative chancellor. The Institute of Directors’ have also supported proposals from QC Graham Aaronson to implement a general anti-avoidance rule that would "deter egregious tax-avoidance".
So could the tide finally be turning for those who cheat the system? Richard Murphy of Tax Research UK, that undertook the research for the Tax Justice Network, says: "If only more had been done to tackle rampant tax evasion, Europe would not be facing a crisis today." Adding that to compel both business and the tax havens themselves to be transparent in their dealings would "shatter the secrecy of tax havens for good." Nothing, he goes on, "could make a bigger contribution than this to solving the world’s financial crisis".I am not a Torliberal but happy to provide some balance to the argument.
I’m also not any apologist for benefit fraud or those lack lazy or dysfunctional who choose to defraud the system. I do think that this kind of demonization of welfare recipients represents an easy target when you take some perspective on what it actually costs this country. The majority of people who will be affected by this £26k cap are often decent families, often on low wages who receive a few thousand pounds per annum quite legally in welfare payments to top up their earnings.
I understand that something like £30bn of fraudulent activity takes place each year in the UK and benefit fraud accounts for around £1.1bn. Reportedly tax fraud, which receives negligible coverage in the mainstream press, accounts for £15.2bn. How about more resources put into tackling tax evasion rather than using benefit fraud as a cover for cuts to genuine claimants. I do not see any political grandstanding about or press demonization about the “acceptable” crime of Tax fraud. But of course I am being a leftie by pointing this out.
If you want a bit more perspective you could consider the amount of money saved from taking the surplus over £26k balanced away from these families against the cost of the £850bn banking bail out. Or balance against Mr. Goodwin’s pension pot and the fine bonus packages that our financial institutions will be paying out this year. I suppose we all have to tighten our belts in this recession.
I also understand that Citizens Advice Bureau research suggests that as much as £16bn in benefits goes unclaimed by those legally entitled to it.
I’m Scottish and like 2/3rds of us want to stay in the Union.
Alex Salmond, like him or not, is an astute politician who knows that his only chance of winning support for independence is to turn it into an anti Tory vote. It’s not hard in a country that has more Panda’s than Tory MPs.
Most Scots can see through the “Braveheart” and shortbread tin politics to know that we all benefit from the Union.
Not really wanting to get into this debate. Thought I would share an email from a friend that is doing the rounds.
Subject: Irish Bailout
So this is how it’s done…
It is a slow day in a damp little Irish town. The rain is beating down and the streets are deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt and everybody lives on credit. On this particular day a rich German tourist is driving through the town, stops at the local hotel and lays a E100 note on the desk, telling the hotel owner he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one to spend the night. The owner gives him some keys and, as soon as the visitor has walked upstairs, the hotelier grabs the E100 note and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher. The butcher takes the E100 note and runs down the street to repay his debt to the pig farmer. The pig farmer takes the E100 note and heads off to pay his bill at the supplier of feed and fuel. The guy at the Farmers’ Co-op takes the E100 note and runs to pay his drinks bill at the pub. The publican slips the money along to the local prostitute drinking at the bar, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer him "services" on credit. The hooker then rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill to the hotel owner with the 100 note. The hotel proprietor then places the E100 note back on the counter so the rich traveller will not suspect anything. At that moment the traveller comes down the stairs, picks up the E100 note, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, pockets the money and leaves town. No one produced anything. No one earned anything. However, the whole town is now out of debt and looking to the future with a lot more optimism. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how the bailout package works.
What this boils down to, is we only need either £100.00, $100.00 or E100.00 and the worldwide debt is paid back and the economy will flourish. Cor, who would have thought it?
Two Blonds walked into a building. You would have thought one of them would have seen it! (Tommy Cooper)
Met Alex Salmond at an event and asked him if he still likes horse racing. He used to give tips in some newspapers before he became First Minister.
He said words to the effect that he had to give all that up. How can people trust you as a politician if you are tipping them losers. Maybe Cameron should learn from that.
I last popped into a bookies in Glasgow during Cheltenham Festival this year to watch a particular race. Have to agree with Ginger. Most of the punters were more interested in the machines.
Virtual Horse racing? What’s that all about. Watched one poor chap shouting on his virtual nag. Sad.
Hi Bob!
Inxile 2;00 Hay
Barshiba 3:00 Hay
Jack My Boy 3;20 Newm (Nap)
Lovelace 3;30 HayReserve Ransom Note 2:45 Newm
Good Luck All!
If this is simply an innocent attempt to formalise the Queen’s powers to dissolve parliament then why not set the mark at 50%+1. It’s all a bit whiffy and undemocratic in my book.
Probably a realisation that once the honeymoon is over its going to be very difficult for many Toriberal MPs to stomach much of what they will have to put their names to.
Nice to see these us move away from the old politics and get these new progressive guys in like Hague & Clark
Wit, I very much agree that it might not be a bad thing for the parties that sit this one out in opposition. Bit of a poisoned chalice the way the cards have fallen.
Personally I would be happy to see Labour not getting involved in some messy alliance with all sorts.
I think this is all hilarious. Teddy bears flying everywhere from the Press. Nearly as good as Boulton (thanks for that clip) was Nick Robinson’s fuming face earlier.Basically nobody has won this election but the Tories won the most seats. Was it something like 10 million voted Tory and 15 Million voted Labour & Liberal together? I will be very surprised if the tribalism in British politics disappears as long as we have this voting system. I cannot see any way the Liberals could get into bed with the Tories. It would be electoral suicide for them. At the same time I cannot see them getting into bed with the Nationalists which simple Arithmetic would require.
My bet is a Tory minority government that will fail in a very short time and another election in October. Terrible for the economy but what do the Press care. They created this X Factor election.
With Brown gone suddenly Labour would look a very different proposition to the fickle public. When you look back it was all there on a plate for Cameron and he blew it against Brown who looks to have done very well. People voted anti Brown rather than pro Cameron or anything on policy.
Insomniac, I do think that Scottish Labour MPs would support PR. There is a huge anti Tory feeling up here as you can see from 1 Tory seat in 59. Funnily enough the Tories do much better in the Scottish Parliament because of PR.
Absolutely gobsmacked to see the Tories now offering a referendum on changing the voting system. I would have thought that was not something Cameron could offer without consultation with the party members. Desperate stuff and might be a step too far for some Tories. Maybe Clegg has played both of against the other superbly and may now go for a loose Tory Coalition.I think this is another example of the partisan Press singling out Brown for some pretty shoddy treatment and dodgy journalism. They tried the same kind of personal attacks on Clegg a few days ago and pulled back when it backfired. I think the media response to this story is fevered and disproportionate, not least of all because journalists hate talking about the real issues in this election debate and would rather focus on the leaders.
This is what Mrs Duffy said about immigration: "All these eastern Europeans that are coming in – where are they flocking from?". A statement probably not meant to offend, just a bit non PC.
I think the Murdoch press in Sky News have reached a new low in publishing a private conversation between Gordon Brown and his staff.
Brown has been mugged by the gutter press again. If anyone wants to criticise the man under so much pressure for making an off the cuff comment then think Glass houses and all that.
They are freely available online on the Guardian & Observer site you obnoxious little man.
Clive I think you really are behaving like a condescending ass.
I suppose you miss the irony that your own behaviour in this forum is prone to tantrums and explosive behaviour. Maybe you should sort out your own issues before you go about personally attacking people for expressing their views. Clearly on this forum you are over compensating for something and demonstrating much of the behaviour you appear to be accusing Brown of.
What I will not take from you is the personal abuse others appear to get when they present any opinion you do not concur with. Even in this thread I think you owe Love Divine an apology. Do not bother giving me one as I really do not give a toss what you think.
For your information I have read these extracts and I have read other political bios. You do not seem to have the attention span to read other people’s posts properly in this forum so do not try to take any moral high ground with me just because you have read something in the Observer. You are clearly prepared only to believe what you want to believe when it concurs with your own opinions. I note you choose not to comment on Cameron’s employment of Bully Boy Coulson to spear head his press operation.
You do not see anything wrong with a journalist writing anything he wants without proper evidence to back up what he claims. A properly referenced political bio is a different animal. Until Rawnsley reveals his “24 Carat” sources it’s all allegations and many of these have already been flatly denied by the very persons involved.The man has put a story together from various sources and much of it appears to be uncorroberated but published at this sensitive time to get maximum political effect and sales.
As for my being thick and lazy I do not really care for your opinion. Not for what you say but the way you say it. So let’s just agree to disagree and not bother with each other’s posts again on this Forum from now on.
I do not think I am alone in my view that the press have been singling out Brown and the Labour Party for some pretty shoddy treatment and dodgy journalism. I note the latest opinion polls report the gap between Labour & Tories down to 5% now so maybe people are beginning to see that. As we get to closer to an election maybe the electorate will see through this personality crap and vote on substance.
My friend tried those Nicotine patches for ages.
He had to give them up as they were far too chewy!
The problem is that Rawnsley’s book is a work of fiction. He refuses to name any of his "24 carat" sources. So all we have are unsubstantiated allegations. You can take any snippet you want from the book. There are just as many that have been completely repudiated.
For example Rawnsley states the head of the civil service, Sir Gus O’Donnell, had a "pep talk" with Mr Brown about his behaviour towards staff following reports some were frightened by his temper. Sir Gus completely denied that last Wednesday. Indeed even Brown says the claims are wrong. But lets not let that get in the way of a good story.
I do not know if Brown is a Bully or not. I am not that bothered really. I am just reacting to the overhyping of the story when there is much more newsworthy and important things going on in the world. In my opinion the press coverage this last week has been disproportionate and malicious in an attempt simply to smear Brown’s character. They jumped on this Pratt woman’s madness and whipped up a storm of innuendo and anecdotes with no substance. I also think the public will see through this as it stinks.
Then you have the smarmy Cameron sniping from the side making all concerned. This is the man who employed Andy Coulson Andy Coulson, who resigned as editor of the News of the World over the royal phone-tapping scandal, to spearhead Cameron’s press operation.
Andy Coulson the Tories director of communications and planning. Famously the News of the World were ordered to pay one of their reporters £792,736 in compensation for being the victim of "a consistent pattern of bullying behavior", led by the paper’s then editor, Andy Coulson.
Now I think that is clear factual evidence of bullying behavior for the man tasked to rebrand the Conservative party with a softer image.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media … 30378.html
Absolutely gobsmacked to see the Tories now offering a referendum on changing the voting system. I would have thought that was not something Cameron could offer without consultation with the party members. Desperate stuff and might be a step too far for some Tories. Maybe Clegg has played both of against the other superbly and may now go for a loose Tory Coalition.