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Scotland – Independance, Devo Max, Salmond, Cameron

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  • #20756
    GingertipsterGingertipster
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    • Total Posts 26575

    Can’t believe this question has not been asked before. Apologies if it has and maybe someone can point me (this thread) to a relevent thread if so. But…

    What is your opinion on Scottish independence, the referendum, devolusion etc?

    Please put your Nationality in with your post if you don’t have any objection to doing so.

    value is everything
    #386466
    paulostermeyerpaulostermeyer
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4601

    I am British born and raised in the part of Britain known as England.

    On the basis that Scotsmen have managed to completely shaft the country in the past 15 years, led by Bliar and Brown, then I would have no issue at all if Scotland wanted to go it alone and try and survive as the Socialist Republic of Scotland, if it meant losing the Scottish domination in Westminster.

    The irony is though that Salmond and his ilk want an independent Scotland within the European Union – yet the European Union would quite happily see international boundaries and sovereignty disappear.

    So what Salmond wants to do is move from being ruled from London to being ruled from Berlin – how odd.

    Scotland can quite happily leave the Union – at least it will mean 59 fewer socialist MP’s in Parliament.

    #386487
    SteeplechasingSteeplechasing
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5767

    I’m Scottish but no rabid Nationalist.

    As Paul mentions, Scottish people have been prominent in Westminster for quite some time. The media/intelligentsia/football/arts are all highly spiced by the presence of Scots.

    It could be argued that Scots punch above their weight in being represented in ‘public life’. A national characteristic perhaps which will probably stand Scotland in good stead if and when they choose to go it alone.

    Salmond is the SNP’s main strength by far and their main weakness because no one can match his guile or charisma, although he treads a fine border between intellectual confidence and arrogance.

    Never argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience, then onlookers might not be able to tell the difference. https://lazybet.com/

    #386546
    Lone WolfLone Wolf
    Member
    • Total Posts 614

    I agree with Paul. The tories are such generous souls. It’s pretty heart warming to know that they’re so desperate to hang onto a country that costs them so much. All those many billions of pounds that the Scots get subsidised with, yet the tories are almost getting desparate in a bid to save the union. If only the rest of the world had the ethic morality of the tories, we would all be in a better place.

    #386565
    KINGFISHERKINGFISHER
    Member
    • Total Posts 1511

    Being English born (London) and raised in Fife Scotland for 6 years till the age of 13,i couldn’t get out quick enough.What can only be described as Anti-English runs through every Scotsmans veins,its born into them.Even now they still love to tell you who the first team to beat the 1966 England world Cup winners were! :roll: You try getting a Scotsman to work 3 days after Hogmanay,particularly if you need to find a Petrol station to fill up and get out.One doesn’t debate in Scotland as Fighting is the only way to resolve a problem so i’m all for their Independance,i can see a statue of Colonel Ghadafi being erected outside their HQ Ffs! :lol:

    #386603
    insomniac
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1453

    Kingfisher – your knowledge of Scotland and the Scots is probably greater than mine (having lived in England most of my life), however, I would guess that the anti-English hatred of the Scots you depict is limited to mostly, the poorly educated numpties. Rabid anti-Scottish views are usually only uttered by the similarly challenged in England. We’ve our share of headcases too.
    Apart from ensuring that the English have had a Labour government foisted on them for too long (in England more people voted Conservative in the 2005 election than Labour yet because of the over-representation of Scotland, we ended up with more of Blair & Brown), England and GB have benefited greatly from our Scottish brothers (and sisters). Scotland, as has often been said, has punched well above its weight when it comes to the armed forces, industry, invention and culture (although Susan Boyle is a negative).
    I hope the union remains intact (but with many less Scottish seats in Westminster).
    We (the English) moan about subsidising Scotland, etc. but even if this were true, I feel England has gained more from having Scotland in a union than it has cost.
    Who knows, one day it may even be possible for an English person to win a seat in the Edinburgh parliament; can’t see that happening soon though. It is the nature of things that the smaller states in a union moan about the larger.

    #386623
    Kevin
    Member
    • Total Posts 295

    I’m Scottish and like 2/3rds of us want to stay in the Union.

    Alex Salmond, like him or not, is an astute politician who knows that his only chance of winning support for independence is to turn it into an anti Tory vote. It’s not hard in a country that has more Panda’s than Tory MPs.

    Most Scots can see through the “Braveheart” and shortbread tin politics to know that we all benefit from the Union.

    #386633
    Venture to CognacVenture to Cognac
    Moderator
    • Total Posts 17550

    Most Scots can see through the “Braveheart” and shortbread tin politics to know that we all benefit from the Union.

    I’m Scottish, and can only hope you’re right about this Kevin. I fear the worst though, I really do.

    #386634
    Venture to CognacVenture to Cognac
    Moderator
    • Total Posts 17550

    Being English born (London) and raised in Fife Scotland for 6 years till the age of 13,i couldn’t get out quick enough.

    What can only be described as Anti-English runs through every Scotsmans veins,its born into them.Even now they still love to tell you who the first team to beat the 1966 England world Cup winners were!

    :roll: You try getting a Scotsman to work 3 days after Hogmanay,particularly if you need to find a Petrol station to fill up and get out.One doesn’t debate in Scotland as Fighting is the only way to resolve a problem so i’m all for their Independance,i can see a statue of Colonel Ghadafi being erected outside their HQ Ffs! :lol:

    Sadly I’d have to agree with you on this one Gord. It doesn’t apply to everyone, but, yes, it has got a lot worse over the last few years. The anti-English stance, which is encouraged and celebrated by our media, reached new depths last year during The World Cup. It’s pretty much unacceptable. If the shoe was on the other foot…………..jeez, it doesn’t even bear thinking about.

    As for the boasting about beating the 66 World Cup team, every time I hear it, it makes me cringe. They still go on about it, as if anyone really gives a toss.

    Insomniac

    …………..really good post, couldn’t argue with much, or any of that.

    #386635
    KINGFISHERKINGFISHER
    Member
    • Total Posts 1511

    Who knows, one day it may even be possible for an English person to win a seat in the Edinburgh parliament; can’t see that happening soon though. It is the nature of things that the smaller states in a union moan about the larger.

    Insomniac,there is every chance of an English person winning a seat in the Edinburgh Parliament,more so than there is an Edinburgh person winning anything in Glasgow as the Glaswegians see the elite Edinburgh folk as ‘almost’ Anglian! Should Scotland ever get true independance and become a totally self sufficient state creating revenue via export etc,there would be a Civil War within a fortnight,History supports that view! In the REAL world we know it will never happen mind!

    #386652
    GingertipsterGingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 26575

    If the Scots want independence then it’s up to them. Really hope they say no.

    I like the Scots and until recently thought it just banta, but the SNP should really change their name to AEP the Anti-English Party. Convinced it is not all Scotland, but the sad thing is Salmond knows his best chance is to whip up anti-English feeling. Using the word "Tory" at every available opportunity and portraying them as interfering. For sure Thatcher did a lot of harm, but it is only in the AEP/SNP’s interests to keep that image of England in voters minds. Salmond even wants a referendum on the 700th anniversary (1314 to 2014) of the Battle of Bannockburn, when the Scots sent the English packing. Also trying to use the 2014 Commanwealth Games held in Scotland to help the feel good factor. Am sure the vast majority won’t be conned, but it might sway the floating voter.

    The SNP was struggling before Salmond went back as leader.
    So Salmond is a popular chap, but what happens when AS is gone? Will Scotland want to come back to Britain?

    What will independence mean?
    How will everything be agreed?
    Will Scotland pay for all investment by the (what’s left of) British tax payer in to Scotland?
    How can anyone outside of Scotland invest in the country when they don’t know what is going to happen? Surely the earlier a referendum the better.
    What about Scottish Banks? Will Scotland pay the British tax payer back for bailing those banks out?

    Not sure I’d want my money in a Scottish Bank after independence.

    Salmond wants to keep the Pound. How?
    It’s the British Pound. One of the biggest reasons for Euro countries finding it difficult is they can’t alter their currencies value etc. With some (richer) Euro countries needing to contribute to help other Euro countries out of the mire. If Scotland has the pound it could bring us all down if things go wrong. Would England, Wales and Northern Ireland bail out Scotland even after independence? Or would it happen the other way? With Salmond’s Scotland helping bail out England, Wales and Northern Ireland. HaHaHa!
    What right has Salmond/SNP/Scotland got to keep the British Pound without all Britain having a referendum on whether we want them to?
    Same goes for other things the SNP say they would do. May be the rest of Britain won’t want a Scottish Army.

    Then there’s the "saving of money" they claim. For example not having to elect and then send MP’s to London. What about money needed to set up and run all the new embassys?

    Before "Deviolusion" I always regarded myself as primarily British, with English coming a distant second. Even now am cheering on all teams of the Union. England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are better together than apart.

    Scottish independence is up to the Scots, but Mr Salmond should aknowledge it is not just something to interest Scots. We will all be affected.

    value is everything
    #386686
    DroneDrone
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5111

    Does anyone know Salmond’s opinion regarding the ‘West Lothian Question’ ?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Lothian_question

    patriotism is admirable but nationalism stinks

    #386709
    GingertipsterGingertipster
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    • Total Posts 26575

    I believe Drone, that Salmond and the SNP voluntarily do not vote in the Westminster Parliament on issues which ONLY effect England.

    He’s always delighted when anyone mentions the West Lothian question, as it suits him to create ill-feeling between English and Scots.

    I can’t see why Scottish MP’s have been allowed to vote on English/Welsh issues for so long. It certainly puts the "English interfering in Scotland" arguement in to perspective.

    value is everything
    #386956
    dave jay
    Member
    • Total Posts 3386

    English, lived in Scotland for 22yrs.

    I don’t see any significant suppoort for independance amongst the people that I know, in fact quite the opposite.

    I voted SNP at the last council election because they are the only real alternative to Lab/Con who more or less have the same policies.

    The crunch will come when it becomes apparent to the people up here that they won’t ever be self governing without control over their own fiscal policies, ie having their own separate currency, their own central bank and the ability to set their own interest rates. Without that they will be in the same boat as Italy in 10yrs time.

    Salmond ultimately wants to join the Euro and therefore he cannot be trusted, neither his intentions nor his judgement. He hasn’t thought that the UK government might not let him use Sterling or he might not be able to use the Euro?

    Who would be head of state for an independant Scotland?

    Without a proper and convincing arguement put forward by the SNP which addresses the basic questions of how the above will be addressed I will be voting NO.

    Jobs and living standards are the only things that really matter to normal people everything is horse dung, imo.

    #387085
    clivexx
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1195

    They can have independence and we have the military strength to seize the oilrigs. the border should be sealed and all present scots down here should be deported (clear the streets of dossers for a start) and if they fail to move back, should be made to wear those ginger wigs for identification

    Also by banning the export of Buckfast wine and Mars bars they will soon have nothing to live on

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