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Gosden is a fine trainer and a very interesting man to listen to. One of the few trainers worth listening to.
Gorde, or whatever he calls himself, is lodged so far up his own sphincter at times. Just palpable nonsense.
Championshio festivals on spring ground with big fields are always more dangerous than small runner races in deep winter ground. The pace is much faster, the ground much harder, the fields much bigger.
It’s a bit early to say Thornton has done any damage to those horses, but the missed prize money must be very annoying to connections. I hope it doesn’t take a fatal fall for a stable star to end Thornton’s time with the stable.
The problems within the stable have not helped, but if you told me after watching Carraig Mor on hus UK debut that his season would have progressed like this, i’d have been very very disappointed. He looked exceptional IMO. We will see what happens today.
Apparently Wilde Blue Yonder is a likely supreme runner. Depending on the outcome of First Mohican, they might either re-route him or hopefully he has Hutchinson onboard. Hopefully these heavy falls don’t impact his development, because he’s clearly a very smart and willing individual.
King has been in decline since his peak years and although he’s definitely had some bad luck (some his own doing), i wonder how much the presence of Thornton is A) limiting some of his horses B) limiting potential owners/upsetting current owners. Who knows, but Thornton definitely isn’t a good jockey at this stage in his career.
He’s basically ruined Kings two best novices this season. The ride he gave Carraig Mor was awful and that horse hasn’t been seen since. Meanwhile, Wilde Blue Yonder probably should be unbeaten in 4 starts this year, but Thornton has conspired to make the horse make 3 bad mistakes at the last in all of his hurdle races, two resulting in falls. Two very nice novices just totally destroyed.
Gingertipster once again being the inane, self professing know it all irrate plonker that he is.
I dislike watching Balding too. Based both on rational and irrational reasons. Her paddock party fun is both tiresome, difficult to watch and filled with obsolete and pointless questions to connections that patently have nothing of real interest to say. Her analysis nothing remarkable. Indulges in hyperbole too. All that is left is that supposed professionalism ; this go getter. Well, it doesn’t really translate into any meaningful or interesting processed thoughts, alas.
Mick Fitz looks like a boy seeing boobs for the first time. Excitement abound, wrapped up in useless and illogical cliches. Little ability to form cognitive, coherent analysis, rather racing F1 cars in his own little head. He’s having a whale of a time he is on that hass! Mr Illogical they say.
Nick Luck has the head of toilet basin. Big, brash and unappealing to view. It’s not that he isn’t knowledge or lacks the ability to put forth his view ; he patently can and does. It’s the seemingly endless desire to engage in hyperbole, stories of emotion and illogical rhetoric (surely Mick and him aren’t rubbing off on each other!). He’s grown on me a little, but he’s certainly not a great lead man.
But, but, but Balding and Luck have gravitas! If i ever have to hear that word again …
Pishad isn’t a natural racing broadcaster, but he’s likable. He’s not the fun loving character Thommo is, but like the mad man, i can’t possibly dislike him.
Cunningham/Mcgrath are actually quite good together IMO.
Stevenson should be collecting from the job center. Awful presenter. Spencer does what she does, but you feel has little insightful anaylsis to really offer.
Plunket, oh Alice, for godsake, find a new hat outlet.
Hardly bold, given the owner has had numerous horses with the trainer in the past.
In theory King has quite a few interesting horses in regards to the Festivals later. Will be interesting to see how many of them perform when they return. His December form was awful and no suprise to see the events in January based on the previous month.
Shame about Tiger Cliff. I believe First Mohican is still an intended hurdler this year at least.
I would say King is most widely known for his juvenile hurdlers. People who buy this type of horse are in my opinion invariably after a quick return. Most of the owner breeders have departed to the likes of Keighley, Mann and Twiston-Davies. The names you mention probably don’t have ten horses between them.
Sadly it seems we will not see Invictus again. Why it has taken three days to report the news I don’t know.
King usually does very well with Juvenile Hurdlers, though he was light last year and is definitely light again this year. Whether it’s a trend or anamoly, one cannot truely know yet.
He however rarely has a huge batallion of Juvenile Hurdlers in any given year. The McNeils buy a bigger purchase every year (Durable man this year), Bunter sometimes has an average early season type and then usually there are a couple of French 3 yr old’s (Thurloe/Mastersons) mixed with ordinary flat horses. Rarely do they make up a large % of his stable.
Most of his owners are not looking for a quick return. His main owners (i.e clearly quite close friends), Mastersons, homebreds, assortment of big owners who send him sole horse etc are certainly not looking for quick returns.
One noticeable issue with King is the quality of his bumper horses. He has quite a few and the majority are weaker than the perception of the yard would lead you to think.
Don’t see why King or his team have any obligation to inform us immediately of any injury sustained. It’s been a couple of days … i don’t see the issue.
King would have fewer horses than Nicholls and in general wouldn’t have the type of owners with the patience and pockets to buy expensive stores and pointers. Most of his owners would be looking at a quickish return.
I would have thought it was much too soon to write off Invictus. As I said he travelled as well as anything but didn’t finish his race off. Assuming no physical reaction let’s see what happens next time. As I put him up for the Jewson in his novice season I don’t think the Ryanair would be the worst idea.
I don’t think King’s owners are generally looking for a quick return. He gets homebreds from a few long time NH smaller owners (no hurry), has quite a few owned by mates/long time Barbury links (Medermit, MYDS owners in different colours), McNeil/Bunter (Who go for specific horses generally), Sewell (Buys bumper stores), occassional bumper horses from Hemmings/Hales/McManus/Hughes/now Walters, Munir (the ones who do seem to be shifted out quickly if useless) and then a variety of small ownership groups/owners. I wouldn’t say his stable constitution is down to a particularly philosophy or lack of patience, it is simply down to lack of money.
Mastersons, although small in numbers, typically buy good stock for him and recently from Ireland.
His French stock seems very limited currently. Nicholls seems to dominant that avenue. Outside of a Million-in-mind horse, a couple from Munir (who look ordinary enough) and one Axom recruit, he has nothing from that sphere. Definitely a slight change.
I’d agree though, Invictus ran an interesting race. Whether he’s good enough for a Ryanair remains to be seen, but i think that might be his trip.
Majority of King’s top horses have been precocious French types or Juveniles who progressed (something he’s moved away from somewhat). Invictus doesn’t fit that bill. He travelled and jumped really well, but blew up (a lot like Two Rockers did last week). Remains to be seen what the horse will do from here, but i actually think he’s not a bad shout for the Ryanair. Clearly retains a lot of ability.
Was pleasantly suprised by Rocky Creek, who i always thought was a plodder. Difficult to know where Trio will go from here. Worthy of moving up in grade at least.
Another howler today at the last, though luckily the horse still won (Wilde Blue Yonder).
I am not a fan of My Tent Or Yours at all. I don’t understand why the media have not cottoned-on to his attitude problems. He is Harchibald mark II.
To my eyes, he dogs it as soon as he comes off the bridle.
Aintree Bumper
– travelled well and found nothing when challenged by The New One.
Ascot Novices’ Hurdle
– thought twice about putting Taquin De Seuil away. Again travelled like he would win by 20 lengths, then did not quicken when ridden.
Supreme
– again travelled best before being seen-off by a horse who wanted it more.
Even so, it takes a very good horse and a decent pace to push him to the limit like that. I love Melodic Rendezvous, but think he needs to force the pace here to stand a chance. He won’t beat My Tent Or Yours in a speed test. I’m hoping My Tent Or Yours wins this on the bridle (how else can he win?), then gets shortened to silly prices for the Champion Hurdle so I can get stuck into some laying.
Yeah, quoting top notch bumper form against a Neptune winner proves this supposed lack of "determination"
As does being beaten into 2nd in the Supreme against an excellent horse. Champagne Fever didn’t want it more, he’s a horse, not a human (jesus christ), he was simply the better horse on the day.
Beating Tarquin by a couple of lengths … the horror.
It’s like when people called Harchibald a dog, as if to say he was leaving stuff behind. News flash ; he was probably going as fast as he could.
Never ceases to amaze me how the majority never truely understand what a flawed and idiotic question the "Greatest is?" in regards to horse racing. Can’t remotely say beyond any reasonable doubt.
This thread clearly has been driven by his recent record. Like Goldikova (Group 1 wins) or St Nicholas Abbey (prize money), their reputation has outgrown their ability. Hurricane Fly was more dominant relative to his field that either, though many wins were recorded in races similar to that of Sunday.
He’s clearly an exceptional hurdler. Probably the best in quite awhile, though prime Hardy, Brave Inca, Harchibald era competes well. That is all we can say. Trending the conversation to best ever simply follows this tedious modern day path of always trying to assert one as being dominant ; better than the rest. Rarely is this the case.
Haven’t been overly impressed by anything i’ve seen in the UK. Doding Bullets isn’t good enough, can’t have him. Grandoeut fell, but was struggling to beat Hinterland, who is a little exposed. Balder Succes has been impressive, but probably isn’t good enough. The best performance so far is IMO TDS beating Oscar Whisky. Jumps well, gallops well and the Arkle should suit ; fast pace race where stamina is required. The ground may be an issue, of course, we shall see.
King seems pretty genuine both to his jockeys and owners.
Hutchinson is IMO definitely the better jockey. He’s able to slowly creep horses into races, whereas as Thornton often struggles to get them jumping. Whereas Hutchinson is quite a still, motionless rider, Thornton is having to be more active because his mounts seemingly jump pretty poorly at times. Especially over fences, i find Thornton particularly unreliable.
Conjecture, but if Hutchinson had ridden Montbazon in the Supreme, i think he’d have jumped much better, and consequently A) gone very close to winning B) Not been off the track since due to shin problems.
Thornton still seems to be at least 1A (Invictus, Medinas, Novice chasers so far), though last couple of weeks Hutchinson had 5 rides on the weekend for King Vs Thornton with 3 and at Cheltenham, a fairly even spread.
Interesting, this weekend Hutchinson goes to Haydock to ride Two Rockers whilst Thornton goes to Ascot for rides in smaller races, including Carraig Mor (same ownership as Two Rockers). I presume Thornton probably had the choice of either and since Two Rockers has a very solid chance in a valuable race, it probably says alot that he is going to Ascot for Carraig Mor in an average Novice race. His win at Uttoxeter was extremely eye-catching. Big frame who pulled very hard all the way round, jumped very big (chasing shape) and still hammered a solid yard stick on the bridle. What his ultimate distance is i’m not sure, but i’d be suprised if he isn’t Festival bound this year.
St Nicholas Abbey isn’t an outstanding horse, Workforce was highly eratic and difficult to judge. Magician is clearly a very talented animal. Moore isn’t generally one to talk up horses, so unlike a Hughes, one is more likely to take heed of the comment, even if still having reservations until we see the horse produce it again and again.
A "happy" yard means in theory better execution of work. It doesn’t make the horses happier ….. We don’t need to descend into cheesy "horses have human feelings!".
Perceived stable form will often simply come down to statistical variation. That variation can derive from any number of plausible reasons. Weak races/good placement, favourable handicap marks, recovering from fitness, ground (i.e a Yard has a high % of horses preferring certain ground types), running their better horses, good fortune (competition runs below form) etc etc etc. Stable may also be running horses during a time frame who have a record of inconsistency, which artificially implies the stable is struggling.
You’ll also have periods of time where trainers either can’t stop winning, or don’t win at all, but as a poster alluded to before, without context it’s difficult to know what that means. You may simply have seen a trainer run a few horses who had little realistic opportunity to win. Conversely, farming a few weaker races at particular times of the season with fit or fresher horses doesn’t mean you should back a horse because of the trainer being "in form", rather back it because it’s got a great chance on merit.
Awesome performance. Don’t feel the race was run like a traditional 12F race, but still an exceptional performance.
Any "Female Frankel" tags need to be safely closed in the box with the old school magazines many of you may have read. Frankel was truely exceptional because he destroyed fields with regularity. Treve, as clearly brilliant as she is, will need to be tested further. Clearly a peak performance that will be historically remembered of course.
Frankel winning the Queen Anne, Harbinger the King George and this performance stand out as the most dominant performance in a serious Group 1 that i’ve seen.
