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Kinda scary! The last time he was seen on a racecourse he beat Reveillez who hasn’t run since either. Now with Jonjo he’s an intended runner at the same meeting……double on the cards?
There is no point of winning a race by 20 lengths if you have to ride the living hell out of a horse to do it.
The thing is Master Minded like Arkle before him, when meeting opposition at level weights, did it with virtually no effort against fairly decent indiviudals.
It is that ability that separates great horse from very good horses.
All Ruby had to do tobeat VPU and Petite Robin was give the horse a squeeze and he instantly stepped up a gear.
Those two would be much more talented individuals than the few horses Moscow Flyer beat by those kind of distances.
He was better than any of his rivals and a true champion I would rate up there but slightly behind Dunkirk, Drinnies Double, Badsworth Boy, Barnbrook Again and Crisp
I omit Flying Bolt from the list as he was agood 2 mile winner but a great 3 mile chaser.
Not a bad lot of names to be associated with in anyones book but this Master Minded like Flying Bolt before him, could shortly be talked about in the same breath as the Mighty A, something MF never was.
Anyone know if Bon Accord is likely to run in this again?
He was beaten into second last season on ground that may have been against him.
Someone should nail one of your feet to the ground Mo. Then you can only walk round in circles and not do any damage to yourself
Weirdest thing! I was having lunch with my bookie today and he was talking about these sydicates who put fortunes on these thigs to try and steal it…….if that’s the right word….Sorry Mr Findlay and co.
Sort of takes the fun out of it for the small punter who gets it up and finds out some syndicates has got handfuls of winning tickets. Don’t think it’s doing the organisers many favours as it must be off puting for some people.
He’s a nice horse Andrew but they got a bit carried away with him last season (cost me a few quid)
They were very confident he would go close in the Tote and even spoke about him going for the Champion Hurdle after he won it. He ran very badly that day, put up a bit better performance at Sandown and then the word was he would win at Aintree….again he flopped.
His season they have been taking it very slowly with the horse. When he won at Kelso you would have thrown away your ticket turning for home as he almost fell at the pevious fence and had 5 horses all going well in front of him.
He picked up really well though and came up the hill at Kelso in great style
winning easily in the end. If anything he looked a more complete horse and found more than he did won there over hurdles, when apprentice ridden.His jumping was a bit sketchy over hurdles but he always seems to get a way with it. It was a pretty awful mistake he made at Kelso and was lucky to survive it but next timeout he was foot perfect…….still a bit of a worry the speed they go in the Arkle.
Much depends on how he fairs at Docaster on Saturday but the Arkle is on the agenda……..If I was going to back him I would wait and see what turns up on Saturday and if I thought he would win I would grab the Arkle price then. Doesn’t want really soft ground as he is usually held up for a late run.
I couldn’t fancy Brave Inca here at all. He was given a good but really hard ride by Ruby last time out and looked very very one paced.
Even with Sublimity and Won in the Dark likely to miss the race it doesn’t make him an automatic winner.
If the do pull out Sizing Europe will definitaly handle the ground and this could be a steering job. He’s gone from an opening 7/1 and as low as 7/2 and rightly so IMO
Ok there was definitaly something amiss with him last time out but if it was a serious problem I doubt he would be turning up here.
I think we might be safe in saying it’s a coincidental stat and has got really nothing to do with PN’s ability as a trainer or the ability of his two stars.
I have severe doubts if any winner in the history of race started so late.
These type of things are always spoken about somewhere in the history ot trivia of a race when they happen.For sure some have an failed but I sincerely doubt if any of them were in the class of the PN duo.
I suggest we should be Master Minded about it and throw these two stats out the window.
I would normally agree Grass but she surely had to run him?. He had only run twice over fences and I would have thought needed the experience. Free World would be expected to go a good gallop and that would be invaluable to thehorse
Not necessarily, Fist.
Well Chief won an Arkle with only a single run in a Taunton novice under his belt, and there are plenty of races available for the horse between now and the Festival.
I’m not saying that Calgary Bay can’t win the Arkle (though I confess, I don’t fancy him myself) – I’m merely saying that there is scant evidence to suggest that he has been "85-90% fit" in his runs this season.
It was common knowledge he would need the run first time up and although Hen might have left him a bit short the other day it is total guess work on my part.
If that was the best we can expect they better make more use of him at Cheltenham than they did then or I could see him being run out of it by speed horses quite easily. (speed horses that’s a laugh
)This Arkle has the look of a very poor renewal all of the first three in the betting were beaten last time out which says it all..
Little wonder!! there are many many times when weight is thee deciding factor when horses reclash. Look at any form book and you will find indications of hudreds of examples.
Like ROF says though in many cases it may not be as important as some other factors but it’s hardly rule of thumb.
Weight as it stands nowadays couldn’t bring some horses together…Like Denman taking on recent 4 times winner Will Be Done over 3 miles giving him the maximum weight allowance. If however a darkhorse
To back up further to what you are saying: A month or so back stable companions Hurricane Fly and Cousin Vinny met and someone pointed out that the latter came out best at the weights. What they are missing IMO is that Hurrican Fly seems like a totally different class of animal and even if they met tomorrow at levels HF would still more than likely beat him. In cases like that the weight can be totally irrelevant.
Perhaps that example may end up with me having egg all over my face but there have been absolutely thousands of times when weight concessions has been ignored by punters and they have come out smelling of roses.
It’s one thing saying a horse won by a short distance or a long distance and it’s another when you bring the also rans into it.
I am a great believer in judging a horse in one of two ways and find it pays dividends.
1. By what a horse actually beat on the day, not what finished half way down the track. For exmple Sublimity beat Won in the Dark 20/1 by 1/2 a length whos best form prior to that was 3rd behind Celestial Halo. I couldn’t consider backing him for the CH on that form. If you look back and say he beat a CH winner by 5 lengths and last years AIG winner by about 9 lengths then you are looking for trouble. Brave Inca is way past his best and Sizing Europe has definitaly ran 1/2 a stone below his best. In short by CH standards it was a pretty poor contest despite what you could take out of it by looking way down the field at horses that were out of form.
2. Look at the horse himself. Master Minded never touched a twig at Cheltenham nor at Ascot. He gained as much as 2 lengths in the air at some of his fences. He never had to be asked a serious question at any point in both races. He was totally relaxed at all times. He treated the Cheltenham Hill with contemptious ease
Compare that to the negatives of Moscow Flyer.. He often idled in front, he jumped very low, something that had him or his partner on the floor 5 times. He seemed incababale of showing the acceleration of great horses, that it takes to leave good horses in his wake.
He had more good things about him than bad but when push comes to shove he had some chinks in his armour that truly greathorses like
Arkle, Flying Bolt, Persian War, Istabraque, Dunkirk and Badsworth Boy didn’t have.At theirbest these horse would be gone with no chance of defeat. Master Minded hasn’t even been tested because he is just that good……Idoubt if Moscow Flyer would have had the jumping ability to go with him and he certainly didin’t have the kick this horse has.
I seriously doubt if any horse could have gone with him from the top of the hill in last years QMCC. At the time I thought it could be a fluke but the performace he put up the other day was every bit as good.
What he beat isn’t important it is the way he is doing it, keeps sound and if he keeps doing so, taking age into consideration, I can’t see him not winning a record 4 QMCC……….been 40 + years sice Arkle and this horse like him has it all.
If all goes well and he wins the QMCC in a similar fashion this year, I hope some daft bookie goes evens or better for 2010. I will be his first customer.
Was that a bit over the top?
I like Paddy for this Jayo’s form doesn’t look as good as Follow the Plan and he only won because PN messed up IMO
I expect Sam Thomas was riding to instructions on Tatenen at L/town
but they really did messed up. Five of the six runners were bunched together at the fence before turning for home.It turned into a sprint with the first two drawing right away which is always sign of a decent horse.
A couple of things I noticed were Tatenen jumps a bit too well and spent that bit more time in the air at the last than the winner. He didn’t look to have as positive a stride as the winner either.
He was running all over them two out and had Sam Thomas made more use of him earlier I am pretty sure he would have won.
I think there ended the experimant and he will go back to taking them on from the start at Cheltenham.
Whether he is good enough or not remains to be seen but if he can’t poach a lad and gets into a fight to the finish I think he’ll lose out big time. LikeI said before I think he’ a big soft git and don’t think he’s any sort of future champion at all. He’ll win races no doubt but I can see him losing more than he wins.
Imsingingtheblues may not be as talented a jumper but for me in kept in his own class is a better type of horse who will win a lot more races in the long term . Working out which is his class is the hard part but I honestly don’t think he’s up to Arkle standards
Hen made no secret of the fact Calgary Bay was badly in need of the run when he beat him 1 length. On that alone you would have to think on the day CB would reverse the form.
I am standing by my orignal choice of Kalahari King who for me was a better hurdler than Tatenen and has taken to fences like a duck to water. I am not in the least bit bothered about him getting beat last time out Ferdy being Ferdy. He will lack nothing in stamina either if it comes down to that.
He has been saying for a year nowthishorsewillwin the Arkleand I thinkhe could be right.The one I fear most is Calgary Bay and he is bound to get a good lead from Tatenen. He loves Cheltenham and jumps for fun. My one worry was when he hit a bit of a flat spot at Ascot when beaten by PB. Whether that was down to being a bit short or he simply lacks the ability to quicken instantly being such a big horse I am not sure. Another worry is the amount of these big novices that end upon the floor at the Festval. Obviously I hope he doesn’t and I’msure he will get round but I think he may just lack the toe to beat Kalahari King.
…….You got me stumped there mate 
