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Can’t see MM being beaten here.
I like Petit Robin, and have actually backed him for the Champion (25-1, more in hope than expectation), but really can’t see him beating MM unless the champ suffers a misfortune. He seems the most realistic alternative, but it’s got to be a no bet race really.
Any thoughts?
There seems to be a lack of strength in depth in the 2 mile division at present…
Some will be surprised to hear that I’ve backed Or Noir De Somoza at 14’s for this and at 33’s for the Ryanair. 2m 5f is his trip and there’s a chance that the ground will be too quick for him but he’s a surefire stayer and on his form in France he’s level with Master Minded in terms of ability though admitedly MM has improved a fair bit since then
Gerald Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:20 pm Post subject:
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There are never more than 3 or 4 top quality 2m chasers.
I am aware of this, so no need for the flippant one liner.
3 or 4 would, for the 2 mile division, represent strength in depth. In fact, it is rare that there are more than 3 or 4 horses genuinely capable of challenging for top honours in any division.
My point was that MM is so far ahead, it is difficult to oppose him, whereas in the days of Viking Flagship, Travado, Deep Sensation, Martha’s Son etc. it was interesting to work out which might win and why.
Maybe I misunderstood, sorry Gerald. Abrupt, maybe, but perhaps that’s just your style. Apologies.
Do you agree that there is less strength in depth than is normally the case in the two-milers? We have been spoilt in recent years with the horses mentioned above, plus the Sound Man/Klairon Davis era, and of course Moscow, Well Chief and Azertyuiop.
Still think Well Chief had the potential to be the best of the lot, had he not got injured. Anyway, enough reminiscing – what wins the VC, and can anyone find a reason to oppose Master Minded?
Be the shock of the centuary if he gets beat but it will be worth watching just to see him run.
I was going to say it’s a pity the stay at home punter will miss out on having a race he can bet in, but there’s always the forecast of course.the stay at home punter watching.
The suicidal punter could always back something to beat him and add it to his other tales of woe
He’ll be 1/5 at best on the day for this which is the worst race he has ran in since coming to the fore.
If David Pipes turns up I would expect a typical take off like a bat out of hell tactic but probably all he will do is set it up for Master Minded
Sorry Benny, I don’t have any views on the 2m Division at the moment.
I’d like to say succinct, rather than abrupt.
I was just a little bit upset about my remark being referred to as flippant, as I’m sure I spent at least 3 seconds thinking about the last 30 years of 2 Milers before I wrote it.
Do you agree that there is less strength in depth than is normally the case in the two-milers?
No, we were spoilt in the year or two Moscow, Azertyuiop and Well Chief were taking each other on. But other than that I think this years crop is not that bad. However, with so many other alternative races these days, the best 2 milers are all avoiding Master Minded. Apart from MM this years Champion Chase will be one of the worst Champion chases ever seen (unless something else improves like the two horses mentioned). But that is because the other horses capable of showing good 2m form will be in the Ryanair. Five years ago they’d have had no option but go for the Champion Chase.
Just a matter of if you think the better Cathgart (Ryanair) is worth the downgrading of the Champion Chase, and to a certain degree the Gold Cup too.
With the racing industry seemingly against "stayers". Could be that in another 20 years time the Gold Cup will go the same way as the St Leger. With the Ryanair the main race.
But I digress.
Mark
Value Is EverythingI’m with Irish Stamp on Mr Pipes selection here.
A small nibble on 14’s here too but I really dont expect a return unless MM turns up with a leg missing
I’m really looking forward to watching Or Noir de Somoza run over here, but as Irish Stamp has already mentioned, 2m 5f (or thereabouts) is really his trip. He was beaten a couple of time over 2m 2f over hurdles, and he didn’t seem to stay 3m 5f in the Grand Steeplechase de Paris, but over his distance, he’s pretty much untouchable. However, I just can’t see him having the speed to get near Master Minded over 2 miles.
I’ve not really looked at the Ryanair Chase in much depth as yet, but I usually do a Champion Hurdle / Queen Mother / Ryanair / Gold Cup each way ante post Lucky 15, and at the moment, I think Or Noir de Somoza could well be my Ryanair choice.
Darren – AngloGerman
________________________________________‘The Hungarian’s going hell for leather’ – Jim McGrath
There are high expectations for Or Noir De Somoza, and his French form looks very good, but he has been off the track for a long time. 8 months nearly without a race, and no matter how well he may be working at home, it might take him a race to really get his fitness back. I would think he will need the run, but will come on for it.
I see Marodima has a new trainer too, has moved from Paul Nicholls’ yard to Rebecca Curtis’ yard. I dont really know much about her to be honest, but will be interesting to see how the horse runs on Saturday.
Master Minded looks nailed on to be honest. He is a class horse, and it will take a lot to beat him.
The one i like the look of at a big price is Lord Henry. Goes very well at Ascot, has course and distance form, and to be honest, i dont see why he couldnt follow Master Minded home.
I cant work Mahogany Blaze out at all, i have backed him in the past, and he’s run well, then backed him again when you think he will improve, and he hasn’t. Lord Henry is a big price at the moment though, and could run another good race at Ascot.
Or Noir De Somoza’s best form is over much further than 2m, and he will do well to finish in the same parish as Master Minded on Saturday.
Acts of god permitting Master Minded wins its not worth looking for something to oppose him. I was hoping for 5/4 so I could steam into him lol but I think hell will freeze over before anyone lets me back him at that price. Is there an idiot out there that wants to offer that on Betfair?
I agree that the two mile chase divsion is weak in that if you take out Master Minded it’d be truely shocking probably on a par with last seasons two mile hurdlers. Twist Magic is capable when he feels like it other than him the rest are all very average in comparative terms to other divisions.
I’m really looking forward to watching Or Noir de Somoza run over here, but as Irish Stamp has already mentioned, 2m 5f (or thereabouts) is really his trip. He was beaten a couple of time over 2m 2f over hurdles, and he didn’t seem to stay 3m 5f in the Grand Steeplechase de Paris, but over his distance, he’s pretty much untouchable. However, I just can’t see him having the speed to get near Master Minded over 2 miles.
I’ve not really looked at the Ryanair Chase in much depth as yet, but I usually do a Champion Hurdle / Queen Mother / Ryanair / Gold Cup each way ante post Lucky 15, and at the moment, I think Or Noir de Somoza could well be my Ryanair choice.
Darren – AngloGerman
________________________________________‘The Hungarian’s going hell for leather’ – Jim McGrath
Darren,
If Our Vic and Tamarinbleu run in the Ryanair, will Pipe want three runners? The VC may be a siter to see if he’s quick enough to run in the Champion. Though he is in the Gold Cup as well as the Ryanair. I’d wait until after the VC before your Lucky 15.Mark
Value Is Everything
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