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Indeed it was – but the race has been ruined by the powers that be.
Ruined?
I believe there is a good replacement 2m handicap, I believe at Doncaster PC. Where would you suggest Master Minded run at this time of year if not in the VC race?
Are you against the Betfair Chase as well?
With the introduction of the Betfair Chase there are fewer top class horses running in the Hennessay. Denman only ran in it to avoid his stable mate.
With such an outstanding chaser as Master Minded it is bound to scare off other good 2m chasers who are capable of top class form at 2m4f. It is just something we have to except when having the opportunity of seeing such a wonderful horse.
Would you be against this conditions race if, in a normal year it attracted as good a field as the Champion Chase?
Mark
Value Is EverythingMark
I think what PC is suggesting, is that MM run in this race, but give weight away.
All you need to do is to make the prize money worth it, and I’m sure bookmakers, who sponsor these kind of races, benefit from increased turnover.
Gerald
Each to their own – the race had little interest to me, apart from to guess how far Masterminded would win. Doncaster and Ascot are different gravy – somehow the VC Chase at Ascot was a real glory Handicap – Desert Orchid v Panto Prince, Well Chief v Thisthatandtother, Azertyuiop v Isio. I’ll bet you anything there won’t be a result in the Donny race which will be ingrained in peoples minds for the rest of their lives like the above examples.
All great memories – which will now never be added to. Whats more memorable – Dessie giving Panto Prince plenty of weight and getting up by a shd, or Masterminded winning hard held by half the track at levels so everyone can make up some new superlatives – please hurry "machine" doesn’t fit such a flamboyant speedster like Masterminded.
Master Minded is a wonderful horse, but it’s so frustrating that there is such a lack of quality in the division.
Great horses can make good ones look distinctly average, but I think it’s fair to say that, with the exception of two or three, this is the poorest it’s been for quite some time.
Master Minded would fit into any generation, but where are the challengers going to come from? The novice division isn’t exactly overwhelmed with two mile talent, either.
Master Minded is a wonderful horse, but it’s so frustrating that there is such a lack of quality in the division.
Great horses can make good ones look distinctly average, but I think it’s fair to say that, with the exception of two or three, this is the poorest it’s been for quite some time.
Master Minded would fit into any generation, but where are the challengers going to come from? The novice division isn’t exactly overwhelmed with two mile talent, either.
I agree with you Bosranic. As you say the novice division doesn’t look overly strong either which sort of strengthens your Calgary Bay / Arkle case, I accept that.
The nearest to Master Minded IMO is probably Twist Magic when he can be bothered and decides he’s going to have a going day but he’s still a fair way behind Master Minded. There really is no other challenger in any way, shape or form that I can think of.
To turn your point around average horses can make top ones look even better than they are. Master Minded is brilliant, undoubtedly but his 186 looks very, very high to me, I have him at 175.
Have to agree PC as far as a race goes there just wasn’t one.
As far as Master Minded himself is concerned I am now prepared to admit he is without doubt the best 2 mile chaser I have ever seen.
I know Destert Orchid was a great horse and his race against Panto Prince is one of the best ever seen on a race course, but the horse is in a different league.
I can’t think of a horse in training curretly running over 2 miles that could get near this horse even getting 2 stone. He just does everything so perfectly.
If he was a stayer I would be prepared to say the new Arkle had arrived.
The similarity between the 2 is in the way they finish when they hit top gear is frightning.
Compare Denman’s or Kauto Star’s wins in the Gold Cup against MM’s win in the QMCC and Arkle’s wins in the Gold Cup.
Denman won well but was out on his feet at the finish. Kauto Star sprinted past his rivals 2 out but after the last it could hardly be said he sprinted up the hill………both Master Minded and Arkle simply flew up the Cheltenham Hill and looked more leke greyhounds finishing than chasers.
The way he measures a few of his fences today brought back memories of the way Arkle would make lengths on his rivals in the air.
I’ve often spoke of Kauto Star as the best since Arkle but this is the first time I have seen a horse that might just end up as good as Arkle albeit at a different trip.
There is no doubt in my mind this is some pony and if you can’t get enjoyment out of watching a budding legend like him PC, then I don’t know what would please you.
It would be nice though Fist for there to be a horse good enough for us to see just how good Master Minded is.
He is obviously very, very good and right up there with Moscow Flyer but whereas Moscow had Azertyuiop and a (at peak) Well Chief to contend with Master Minded has nothing other than 150 odd rated chasers.
I’d look like a champion sprinter if I were taking on an 80 year old woman. OK silly comparrison but I’m sure you take my point.
For what its worth (probably not a lot lol) I have Kauto Star as my highest rated chaser (at peaks) on 182 with Denman 179, Master Minded and Exotic Dancer 175.
Master Minded looks a certainty for the Champion Chase. Well Chief is the only other 2m chaser in training that has the ability to challenge MM. Unfortunately, it would be a miracle if David Pipe could get him to run to his best in the CC after such a long layoff.
It was the way that Master Minded jumped that had me blinking back the tears; as someone that has always wanted but never could feel amazed by the exploits of Kauto Star this horse today just had me mesmerized; however it’s one thing seeing a horse win so easily but it’s another to actually run his heart out because he wants to beat the other horse, the way that Dessie did that day…
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A waste of time – which genius decided to make the best chase handicap of the season in to yet another boring conditions race? I haven’t spoke to one person who thinks it was the right move.
As for Paul Nicholls comment that there wouldn’t be any more runners i the race was still a handicap – drivel.
PN’s probably correct on this one.
How many horses do you know that MM wouldn’t give around 17lb to, and laugh at?It would be nice though Fist for there to be a horse good enough for us to see just how good Master Minded is.
It’s the same situation as they had with Arkle in the 60’s though Ian there’s nothing good enough to take him on.
Whether that’s because he’s just so much better than everything else or because it’s a poor division is up to the racing fan to decide. I think it’s the former.
As far as Moscow Flyer and Well Chief were both very good animals but they din’t win races like this horse keeps doing.
VPU was one of the poorest QMCC winners I can remember but he looked like a boat against MM who left him a massive 20 lengths in his wake.
Only great horses can do that continously.
Look at Tidal Bay a horse everyone though was a great prospect for the future and a possible challenger to MM. He wins the Arkle, wins again at Aintree, dawdles up on his reapperance, then can’t even get a blow in against Master Minded despite, HJ saying he was at the top of his form.
The one thing we should not forget is this horse has only just turned 6 years old and if he improves like any normal horse hell knows what he can achieve in the next 4 years.
Each to their own – the race had little interest to me, apart from to guess how far Masterminded would win. Doncaster and Ascot are different gravy – somehow the VC Chase at Ascot was a real glory Handicap – Desert Orchid v Panto Prince, Well Chief v Thisthatandtother, Azertyuiop v Isio. I’ll bet you anything there won’t be a result in the Donny race which will be ingrained in peoples minds for the rest of their lives like the above examples.
All great memories – which will now never be added to. Whats more memorable – Dessie giving Panto Prince plenty of weight and getting up by a shd, or Masterminded winning hard held by half the track at levels so everyone can make up some new superlatives – please hurry "machine" doesn’t fit such a flamboyant speedster like Masterminded.
I would agree with you PC, if trainers would run in top handicaps these days (apart from on reappearance). Dessie v Panto was one of my favourite races. I backed Panto Prince and over the final fence was shouting "Go on Panto, go on Brendan (Powell), go on Panto"! Then, halfway up the run in, without meaning to; changed alliegence "go on Dessie, go on Dessie"! Never been a man of many words. But what a horse he was.
Mark
Value Is EverythingAs far as Moscow Flyer and Well Chief were both very good animals but they din’t win races like this horse keeps doing.
.Well I think the reason for that is pretty obvious….
Master Minded was awesome today, but we learnt absolutely nothing new about him today. Piss poor race.
No horse was ever capable of getting to the bottom of Moscow Flyer over fences until he was well, well, past his best – not Well Chief, not Azertyuiop, nothing. Nobody knows how good he was. This fact seems to be so quickly forgotten.
Agree with Aiden – good winner, crap race. Fists – i didn’t really enjoy it any more than i’d enjoy watching Dayjur put my namesake in his place over 6f.
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