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Hello all,
I expect this thread will only gather a deal of momentum in a few weeks’ time, but I thought I’d take this early opportunity to let you know of an interesting horse that has taken just three weeks of the new point-to-point season to qualify for the Cheltenham Foxhunters’ Chase, the first horse this term to do so.
…And that horse is none other than 2007 Coral Cup winner BURNTOAKBOY.
Still in the care of Dr Richard Newland, Burntoakboy followed up a facile win in a Cottenham Open on day one of the season with another win in that grade at Wadebridge, Cornwall this afternoon.
In truth the wins taught us little more than his enthusiasm remains undiminshed granted easy enough opportunities, as these undoubtedly were. I think I’d be wanting to see him collect at a tougher, more galloping venue such as Larkhill, and against better company, before positing him as a leading Foxhunters’ candidate, for all that he does of course boast appreciable course form.
Jeremy
(graysonscolumn)Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Amazing what a difference 18 months make. I know he won the Coral of a very low weight but I thought he would do well over fences but unless I am mistaken he never won a race,
Hard to imagine him winning the Foxhunters unless the problem was in his head and he has anew lease of life…………It’s been years since I paid much attention to point to points and that was only because a friend had a horse who used to run in them.
Refresh my memory here Jeremy do they have to actualy go hunting to qualify for the Foxhunters? and what’she procedure to enable a horse to run in point to points?…….or is that the same question?
Weatherby’s http://www.pointtopoint.co.uk will answer most questions you may have on the sport, and it is from there that the following passage is lovingly purloined;
“Point-to-Point racing is amateur horseracing over fences for hunting horses. Horses running in Point-to-Points must be registered thoroughbreds, except in Hunt Members races and certain other Club Members races (e.g. Pegasus Club Members race). The horses have to obtain a certificate (Hunter Certificate) from a Master of Foxhounds stating that they have hunted for at least 4 days in the season, in addition the Riders must obtain a certificate from the Hunt Secretary”.
So yes, the Foxhunters is still to be contested by hunters and hunters alone.
There are strictures with regards to what qualifies for the race, however. Aspirants need to have recorded a fixed number of wins or seconds in hunters’ chases, or else two wins in Open point-to-points, within the designated time limit. Happy Jack or Adrian will put me right if necessary, but I think I’m right in saying that in order to qualify for the 2009 Foxhunters, these wins / seconds need to have been accrued between the start of the 2007-8 pointing season and March 1st 2009.
There are also limits in place to exclude winners of any prize under Rules over a set value. Again, I need to check the rulebook, but I think it’s a figure northwards of £25,000 or £30,000.
Either way, as a first-season pointer / hunter, Burntoakboy needed to meet the wins / seconds criteria between December of this year and March 1st next, which he has done very easily before the better Open horses come out to play.
It’s the return of Ballycassidy that me and Zome are particularly awaiting, though.
Jeremy
(graysonscolumn)Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
It’s the return of The Man From Slatt that we should be most excited about. That and Arctic Times next 10 processions in Open Points in Ireland – a true pointing legend
Arctic Times’ chance of claiming a major hunters’ prize is almost certainly past, but agreed, he is the nearest thing to perpetual motion in Irish points and should be treasured for that.
As for The Man From Slatt, yes, I’ll be keeping an eye on him and Agus A Vic in particular. I got the sense last year that there was something a bit lacking where genuinely top-class Irish hunter chasers was concerned, but only in as much as the likes of the two mentioned were perhaps still a year shy from maturing into really good operators in the sphere.
If they can show the right signs in the first half of this winter, I think Amicelli and Bon Accord can expect some tougher opposition come the Friday of the Festival.
Jeremy
(graysonscolumn)Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Yeah – I was impressed with TMFS last season – well in his debut race at Downpatrick at least where he ran them ragged. Aboo Who I think it was who looked quite a good young prospect when beating him next time out but you’re right in that the hunter chase scene in Ireland lacks a star.
Juveigneur is out there with Eugene O’Sullivan (of Arctic Times fame) so maybe he’ll step up to the plate though like Arctic he’s a bit old.
AT would have to go down as one of my favourite horses for sure Jeremy, great in the points but the fences seem to get in the way despite his good placings over the big Aintree fences in the past.
Hi, I’ve gone back to working through the horses in my GN spreadsheet, and I’ve just come across that Juveigneur has recently won 2 Open ptp in Ireland.
He did, Paul, at Dunthrop in Oxfordshire, and a far better contest than either of Burntoakboy’s wins at Cottenham and Wadebridge were achieved in. Dr Newland has even said in the current Weekender that the point of him swerving Dunthrop was to guarantee an easier chance of winning.
Kingscliff still needs to win one more point or hunters’ chase to make it to Cheltenham.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Not sure how to put this but is there any resentment in the world of point to points of ex racehorses coming along and winning races [Kingscliff would be an exception because that’s where he started], compared to horses that start off in that sphere and stay there? I’m sure there isn’t, but I just wondered>
Hi, I’ve gone back to working through the horses in my GN spreadsheet, and I’ve just come across that Juveigneur has recently won 2 Open ptp in Ireland.
He´s with Eugene O´Sullivan who also trains Arctic Times for Trevor Hemmings. Not sure what the plans are for either – whether Patrick Hemmings (I think that´s his name) who´s Trevor´s grandson is likely to ride (as will happen with Armaturk) or Maxine O´Sullivan (Eugene´s daughter) or A N Other.
Interestingly the fourth in one of Juveigneur´s recent open wins came out and won the first division of the Maiden Hunter Chase at Downpatrick today – Takeyourpick. Not as impressive as the 2nd div winner but a good performance none the less and never really looked in any doubt.
Not sure how to put this but is there any resentment in the world of point to points of ex racehorses coming along and winning races [Kingscliff would be an exception because that’s where he started], compared to horses that start off in that sphere and stay there? I’m sure there isn’t, but I just wondered
Less so Rules horses per se, but rather Rules horses trained by Rules trainers.
The forums of the point-to-point website Jumping for Fun were inundated with pointing fans, trainers, riders, etc. bemoaning the fact that the likes of Paul Nicholls could campaign horses in hunters’ chases (and theoretically deny genuine point-to-pointers Foxhunters qualifying opportunities, to say nothing of prizemoney) that were being battered in handicaps off 140 only as recently as the given season’s October 31st cut-off point.
There were, however, just as many respondees replying that it behoves the pointing fraternity to put something up against these animals and beat the pros at their own game – too often last season they didn’t do that.
I’ll expand on this at another juncture if I get time (or unless a fellow pointing chum chips in first) – ‘fraid prepping the Ascot card is detaining me a bit just now. Nighty night.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Without doubt the main Hunter Chases to look out for are the first ones of the new season at Wetherby which Sleeping Night won a few years ago, The Haydock Walrus Hunters which was won last year by Christy Beamish as these are two very classy events.
Not sure how to put this but is there any resentment in the world of point to points of ex racehorses coming along and winning races [Kingscliff would be an exception because that’s where he started], compared to horses that start off in that sphere and stay there? I’m sure there isn’t, but I just wondered
Less so Rules horses per se, but rather Rules horses trained by Rules trainers.
The forums of the point-to-point website Jumping for Fun were inundated with pointing fans, trainers, riders, etc. bemoaning the fact that the likes of Paul Nicholls could campaign horses in hunters’ chases (and theoretically deny genuine point-to-pointers Foxhunters qualifying opportunities, to say nothing of prizemoney) that were being battered in handicaps off 140 only as recently as the given season’s October 31st cut-off point.
There were, however, just as many respondees replying that it behoves the pointing fraternity to put something up against these animals and beat the pros at their own game – too often last season they didn’t do that.
I’ll expand on this at another juncture if I get time (or unless a fellow pointing chum chips in first) – ‘fraid prepping the Ascot card is detaining me a bit just now. Nighty night. :)
gc
I was one of the latter Jeremy. This season with the likes of Burntoakboy, Kinscliffe and Turthen (who apparently won as easily as Kingscliffe at Dunthorp under Charlotte Tizzard) and a few others there might not be as much whineing. In any case once the pointers got into their stride the rules yards got beat as often as they won especially the likes of Armaturk and Thisthatandtother (did I read he may go pointing?). Could turn out to be a belter of a Foxhunter this Festival
Without doubt the main Hunter Chases to look out for are the first ones of the new season at Wetherby which Sleeping Night won a few years ago, The Haydock Walrus Hunters which was won last year by Christy Beamish as these are two very classy events.
Definitely with the Walrus – plenty of top hunters have won that over the years.
The others to look out for are the 2m-2 1/2m one’s. Nicholls went out of his way to find one for TTAT last year – the winners of these are normally worth laying over further.
Agus A vic out in a hunterchase at Downpatrick Boxing Day. Can’t work out the form but a good sized field.
Just looked it up on the RP results service. he was towards the rear when brought down 7th. Only 8 out of 20 finished. Looks to have been like the Charge of the Light Brigade with horses falling everywhere with sadly one killed. The Irish Point to Point site which gives a very good view of the Irish Hunt racing scene, might have some more to say.
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